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They say a picture speaks a thousand words Burt.
If you were to similarly agree with Joe Davis without question, still regarded by some as the best snooker player to ever pick up a cue, you could find yourself arguing against some scientists of quite high repute. Einstein and Newton to name but two. |
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well tell them to meet me at Willie Thorne's and we'll play a £5 a point
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I could tell you a story or two about Willie Thorne, Burt. However, as I know he looks in on the other forums from time time, I think perhaps I'd better not.
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Suffice to say, more than once I've seen him tight against the cushion.
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That has to be the least rude pool innuendo ever!
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Fascinating stuff!
I always thought that topspin worked because the white did a little jump as it hit the object ball, thus knocking the object ball out of the way and allowing the white to continue rolling rather than skidding. There is a shot I'd like explained though, PM - or Alex...... Object ball (say a red) over the pocket, 2 feet away along the cushion which is about 4 inches away. Next ball (black) just behind where you are shooting from, say 2'6" from the pocket. Now in order to get the white (and I have played this shot) back to just behind where it is now, you belt it with max topspin. it pots the red and does like a bananary swerve bak to where required. Are you saying this is just power, and there's no such thing as topspin? |
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btw, I used to deal Blackjack to Willie Thorne.
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I also briefly managed a pro (not great) snooker player, who is very good mates with Ali Carter.
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in Leicester Study?
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No Burt.
Casino in London, snooker player in Essex. |
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Oh My own topspin theory... because of the downward force imparted to the cue ball because it's being hit above centre.
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Good evening Study. I hope you are well, sir. :)
The banana shot I believe you are describing is a fairly common, and simple, trickshot. The effect witnessed is actually a form of backspin, not top or overspin. At no point is the cueball spinning in the same direction it is travelling. It is backspinning until it can regain enough grip to roll forward. |
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And this conflict of forces causes what is known as a parabolic curve.
Banana shot sounds better though, I agree. :) |
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Poker...what are you doing June 5th?
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you know the one I mean though, and you do it with 'Top'. Is that right?
Or would you get the same result with loads of bottom? |
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Sorry, Study, I didn't really answer your direct question there sir.
Yes, it is just the power, the momentum of the cueball, as long as it is rolling naturally on the cloth. An absence of backspin as it collides with the object ball, as RockMonkey accurately described earlier. |
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It definitely would not work with bottom, Study. No giggling at the back, please Master Sparkmaster.
As long as you strike fractionally above centre on the cueball (which starts it off rolling and not sliding) the banana shot will work if you hit it hard enough and gauge the correct angle on the object ball. Sparky: Not sure yet sir on June 5th, but probably in America. Have you got a pool event organised? |
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hes right, but its basically semantics, what people refer to as applying topspin is simply the lack of applying a force that counters the natural follow through...
B-) |
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Absolutely correct Puma.
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OK Thanks - It's become a long thread, but jolly interesting.
Not bad by the way, PM - sorry, I wasn't being rude. I hope you're well. |
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Ah Poker, well no worries, I'm having a few mates up for my birthday, and because a lot of them are former uni pool players (including the guy who runs the BUSA comp now), we're having a Legends v Current stars comp - we thought you could be guest host or some such, but being in the US is a better bet!
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I'm flattered Sparky! It sounds great fun, sir. The very best of luck with it and, if I am at home, maybe I'll take you up on your kind offer.
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Fine thanks Study. :)
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Good good PM, I'll try to give you a shout nearer the time. It'll be 2-8, strictly, to leave drinking time after!
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I have enjoyed tonight's little debate enormously; so much in fact that I'm thinking of making it a regular weekly slot.
Next tuesday: why a Royal Flush doesn't beat a full house. |
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you can pull your trousers back up now pm :^0
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You could do: 3 card brag. A running Flush should beat 3 of a kind. (but doesn't)
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my Uzi will beat your bow and arrow
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Should it really Study? I'm not a mathematician, but three of a kind seems to be statistically less likely to me. Do you have the actual figures, sir?
Having said that, I could believe it because KING HIGH in six card omaha is as rare as a hen's tooth, yet it loses to a commonplace pair every time. |
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yes it should
perms of 3 of a kind: 13 numbers A,2,3,.....K 4 ways of getting 3 from 4 the same, so 52 ways to get 3 of a kind. 4 suits - straights go from A23, through 234, 345 to QKA, so 12 possible runs per suit, 48 ways to get a running flush |
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Well there you go. You learn something new every day, eh! :)
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I want it known that I worked it out on my own btw, (when working at a casino and dealing the appaling 3 card poker game, which is basically brag).
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Another one, but I'm not sure of this, is Poker with Deuces wild. I reckon 2 pair is much rarer than 3 of a kind, but I can't get close to working it out.
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Back in the old days all we used to play was stripped deck five-card-draw. With only thirty-two cards in the pack (remove everything below a seven) a flush beats a full house.
My oh my, the trouble that caused! |
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If you were to ask on the poker forum, Study, I'm sure somebody could give you the formula.
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So are we saying it is impossible to impart any overspin/topspin to the cueball.
Are the dynamics between a snooker ball/cue and pool ball/cue any different. ? |
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I used to play that game all the time, stripped deck, 5-card. My favourite poker.
I don't remember the flush beating the FH, but it makes sense. |
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They are different in as much as the cueballs found on most English pool tables are far smaller, and therefore lighter, than the colours.
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http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-26.htm
Topspin shirley..? ?:| |
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http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/index.html
loads of interesting vids and stuff tucked away.. ^^ |