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And I promise that the only time it is spinning on the cloth, instead of rolling naturally, is during that short time it is travelling back towards the player.
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reyes, it's newtons 3rd law of motion: if a exerts a force on b, b exerts an equal and opposite force on a.
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Pokermonster, you thik the new thinner cloths the pros use will maybe allow for some topspin on a snooker table?
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No, sir. I believe it would be impossible to impart topspin to the cueball (using a normal cuestick) even on a sheet of glass.
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interesting thead, are you saying that if one ball is hit "plain ball" and another with "top spin", as long as they hit the object ball at the same velocity, the cue ball would end up in the same place, or do even balls hit plain ball have backspin on them?
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I disagree, you can put top spin on by striking through the top part of the ball and following through with the cue
(imvho) |
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As long as the plain ball example is rolling naturally, yes, Richard, they would end up in the same place no matter how high you struck the cueball.
This might not be the case if the object is very close, a few inches for example, or the white is struck very hard. In both these cases the cueball could be sliding as it hits the colour which, if it's a head on collision, causes a perfect stop shot. |
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don't get hung up on the pool clip, i was using it merely as an illustration.
next Q - explain this to me. Blue on it's spot - cue ball a foot/18 inches away, potting angle half ball. Shot A - i pot blue hitting white bang in the centre, white ends up at position X. Shot B - i pot blue hitting the white (say) 3/4s of way up it (no side spin at all) ball finishes at position Y. Both shots played at same speed. Cue ball ends up at VASTLY different place (not even on same trajectory, which could account for any difference in power between the shots) How? Backspin....??? |
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(typed all that during Richard's comments being raised - same thing!)
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hey PM, i play a bit of pool and dont think i can agree with your blue up and down the table example. however if you are trying to argue that one can not 'apply' 'topspin' but rather 'topspin' is the natural state of a rolling ball and all other pool/snooker shots require you to apply a force which counteracts the natural state - and that snooker commentates would be more accurate if they said the player needs to 'apply no unnatural force' if a his shot requires follow through, then you might win the argument from a semantical point of view...
B-) |
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Hi Tev. :)
You have brought up another common myth, sir! A smooth follow-through part of a cue action is to be encouraged indeed, but it serves no physical influence over what happens to the cueball. Once it's gone, it's gone. And it goes long before the follow-through. |
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the ball has a sliding and a rolling component to its movement.
topspin works exactly the same (or opposite) to backspin. |
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This
All hitting the top of the white ball does, Mr Eboue, is to start the cueball rolling naturally. It does not have any extra forward rotation over and above this roll. is a load of rubbish. end of thread. |
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the ball obviously rolls over faster when hit at the top than at the middle
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Hi Reyes. :)
From a just a foot away it is very likely that the cueball of shot A is sliding when it hits the blue and has not had chance to regain its grip for a natural forward roll. This will happen if you strike bang in the centre. In these instances the white will deflect away at a ninety degree angle to the trajectory of the blue. If you were to strike just a smidgeon above centre the cueball will start rolling immediately and not slide. It will also end up in the same place as shot B. Shot B: The white is rolling as it hits the blue. It does also deflect away at a ninety degree angle momentarily, before its forward momentum causes a parabolic curve (the severity of which is dependent on speed) until it continues on again in a straight line. |
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Hi Janine. ;)
Everything you have written, madam, is incorrect but thank you for your interest. |
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Forgive me. I did not mean to wink at you then. It was supposed to be a smiley. :)
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hey poker, who am I to disagree with a master cuemaker? :)
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it works in pool - not sure about snooker though as don't play that.
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ok do this
1 put green ball on green spot 2 place cue ball 2 or 3 foot away from green 3 make sure cue ball, green ball and corner bag are in a straight line 4 hit cue ball dead centre at good pace and go and fetch the green ball out of the bag 5 set up the above exactly the same 6 hit cue ball between centre and top using same power as previous shot 7 now fetch the green AND white out of the corner bag 8 if they are not there then you are no snooker player |
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ps i have a degree in mechanical engineering so know about this stuff
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Good evening Burt. :)
The only way you will be fetching the cueball out of the pocket is if you hit it harder than the first shot. |
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Burt. I have just noticed you said dead centre in the first instance. Sorry. If the cueball is still sliding as it hits the green full ball it will stop dead.
If it had time to start rolling, which it will do immediately if you strike even a fraction above centre, then speed of stroke is the sole determining factor, not how high up you hit the cueball. |
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I'm just popping out for half an hour gentlemen.
Thank you for your interest. I'll check back later if anyone would like to discuss the subject further. |
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Everything you have written, madam, is incorrect but thank you for your interest.
well no, but never mind. you could always just look up rolling/sliding motion/friction in a mechanics book and save yourslef this embarassment either that or end the fishing trip early |
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Janine, I can assure you this is not a fishing thread as I have mentioned earlier.
And thank you for your suggestion of brushing up on my rolling, sliding and static friction, it is always a good idea. I will revise my coefficients of friction ratios as well, just to be on the safe side. |
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meriam and kraige
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if you revolve the cue while making your shot can you put clockwise spin on the ball?
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Whatever you do with the cue will affect the white ball.
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its a compelling defence from pm.he just tells everyone they're wrong
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Must be a fishing post - 3 pages long. Anyone who has played or even watched snooker knows you hit the top of the cueball for topspin, bottom for backspin and left and right of the centre for side.
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i was about to post some witty reply as i thought this was a joke - having read through it i am going to hold back from saying it is nonsense because pm seems pretty darned sure about it - and has actually put doubt in my mind - i'll abstain. - fair play to him as well - he does argue his points well.
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should post it on snooker as well
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Regarding the original post...I would imagine that a ball cued centrally will cause a certain amount of 'skidding' depending upon the speed of impact ass the onlty rotational movement would have to be caused by the friction on the cloth. If 'top-shot' is played this would mpart a higher rotational effect from the start (probably reducing with the distance travelled) so that, at any time during it's travel, the white ball will have a relatively higher rotational force.
This can be observed better in the case of 'back-spin' where the ball will contra-rotate for a distance until the frictional drag overcomes the original 'back-spin'. Phew! I hope I'm right. :D |
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nice haul pokermonster!
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I think PM is correct.
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No one seems to have grasped what PM is saying, which is that, unless you play the shot with stun or screw, the white will naturally continue its forward motion after striking the object ball and that this is not through the application of topspin but simply due to the laws of physics.
Hitting the ball above centre thus does not impart topspin but rather prevents screw or stun being applied, which is the only way of stopping the cue ball progressing along its forward path until it runs out of steam. That this above centre striking has been commonly known in snooker parlance since the beginning of time as topspin is what is causing the mass confusion. Describing such a shot as being played 'without screw or stun' is obviously a lot clumsier, though perhaps more accurate from a pedantic point of view. |
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i have a sneaking feeling it is not pm who is going to look a bit silly at the end of this - just read it through again and i think he may be right.
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Hello again. :)
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It's BACK!!
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