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champion chase 2020

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Replies: 339
By:
muse
When: 11 Feb 20 14:19
I agree with Foyleswar's comments about DD above.

However, having been a massive DDS fan throughout, recent events have persuaded me that CPS is the likeliest winner.  Altior and DDS have awesome Festival records, so you would have to trust that CPS can also produce his best, because he will need to.  But the combination of his most recent win and his defeat of DDS last season, albeit that the latter no doubt peaked for Cheltenham, and may not have been at his absolute best, convince me that he has the strongest overall form now.

Clearly, no sane racing fan would hate to see Altior do it again, but just based on how he is running right now, I think he is vulnerable.

DDS has looked better and better, and it would be unwise to take a dim view of his runs based on what he beat: he can't help how the others run.  But I think CPS might just be a bit better.

If I had 20s DDS on a slip I would be very chuffed.  I am not sure I can see any huge value in any of the top 3 right now, I do think CPS is slightly too big, and even more so if therebis any significant chance of DDS going to the Ryanair.
By:
muse
When: 11 Feb 20 14:21
Just sas Hibores comment about DDS.  I should pay attention.

I am glad, as I have DDS in some multiples (though sadly not at 20s!)
By:
duffy
When: 11 Feb 20 15:57
One thing is clear IMO, if you haven't already backed any of the front 3 at bigger odds you couldn't get involved now at their current prices, you can have your idea about the winner and mine is that CPS is the most likely winner, but the negatives that the front 3 all have outweigh their prices.

At the current prices the value has to be Cilaos Emery, he has a big enough question to answer on his jumping and we're not to know how the last day will stack up, he's entered in the red mills so it's obviously been decided that he does need to have a run into before the festival.

What we know about him suggests that he may well have the innate ability to operate at the level required. If we accept that the front 3 have little between them you can consider the line of form that suggests he has the beating of CPS, it's tenuous as there's a few parts involving APT, CPS and Ballyoisin but it's there and you're getting a price for it.
By:
impossible123
When: 11 Feb 20 16:25
If CPS wins I'll be in the poorhouse. CPS is a 2 miler; DDS is not (I believe) despite winning twice over 2m against a regressive opponent in UDS this season; won The JLT last season.

I believe, and hope Altior can secure a 3rd consecutive victory here after a inauspicious start; his finishing kick after the last will see him in good stead against CPS (a 2 miler) and DDS (who needs further).

Personally, I think DDS is running in the wrong race, and against Altior who's a lethal finishing kick over 2 miles, and CPS a 2 miler.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 16:47
Well time will tell on that Imp. As I said before to my eyes watching the JLT again the other day the way he finished that race off over 2 and a half mile,suggested to me he would have no problem stepping up to  three miles.Maybe he will at some point,if he flops in this race he would I think.
Still hes running decision made, and to be fair he's looked ok jumping so far over 2 m this season,I hope he can do it in this race which will be a proper test for all of them,no hiding place that's for sure.

I can see the reasoning behind CE being a bit of value,especially if one is thinking the Irish form is better than the British,or at least as good as.
Dynamite Dollars is more than twice the price though.
Actually one could back both,think i will add CE.
By:
impossible123
When: 11 Feb 20 17:21
The Punchestown race where DDS was beaten fairly and squarely by CPS (one bad jump for DDS there) was telling, and to me it confirmed DDS is no crack 2 miler; DDS beat Lostintranslation (L) in The JLT (too short for L) does not mean DDS will stay 3 miles (either) which I think he'll not. I think it showed he'd more pace than L.

I strongly believe, all things being equal, the race will be between these 3 horses. And, the horse with the finishing kick and (stamina) for slightly further eg he won The Supreme is Altior; CPS was outstayed by APT (budget airline), and probably ring rusty too. However, I do not think he showed he'd quicken when beating MIN another 20f horse (now).

Not long now before we know for sure. If not there's Aintree or Punchestown for a final decider.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 17:25
Agree it did show he had more pace than LIT.
It also showed to me that DDS would stay further.
Think he looks tailor made for a King George.
Anyway,hes running over 2m, lets see how he does.
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 20:23
Imp, can you add Sceau Royal into your calculations...how does that change things.

Also DDS has run quicker times over 2 miles than Altior has in the last 18 months. How is that possible for a 3 mile plodder Laugh
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 20:47
Altior never been one for quick times......he just wins.

3m plodder?? Been plenty of KG winners I would not describe as plodders.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 21:04
Something that really pleases me is that UDS is apparently still a big form guide to the Champion Chase.
Being such a big fan of the horse over the years,its nice to know that at the age of 11/12 hes still seen as a scalp over 2m. That's despite connections running him in the Ryanair.
Maybe connections will look at the joint fav and give UDS one last hurrah in this years QM.Maybe my pennies on him for the QM should not be torn up just yet Wink
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 21:07
DDS is not running in the Ryanair because he excels over 2 miles and he won’t run in the King George because he excels over 2 miles.

By the end of this thread you will be putting Defi up for the Grand National.
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 21:16
buddeliea
buddeliea 17 Jan 20 13:56 Joined: 19 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 15,126 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog
Clarence House tomorrow.
If UDS beats DDS then he has to be in the mix for the Champion Chase.
Without Altior I think hes the next best if he don't get beat tomorrow.
Chucked a few bob on him on here at around 23.

Unfortunately DDS thrashed him ....so you would expect DDS to be at least 2nd best horse. But no...he needs 3 miles around kempton. Nuts.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 21:19
Why you being such an &rse Hibore?

Ive said im glad hes in the QM,and I think if Altior is not within 3lb of his best,i have said I think DDS will win the race, but its certainly possible I am wrong on that and its certainly possible that he does not excel at 2m. First he has to beat proper 2 milers(according to connections UDS has not been one for at least two years now).
   
And I can still give opinions I have when I watch last years JLT.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 21:21
And I have never said he needs 3 miles !!!
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 21:27
My reply was to your one below.

buddeliea
buddeliea 11 Feb 20 21:04 Joined: 19 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 15,128 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog
Something that really pleases me is that UDS is apparently still a big form guide to the Champion Chase.
Being such a big fan of the horse over the years,its nice to know that at the age of 11/12 hes still seen as a scalp over 2m. That's despite connections running him in the Ryanair.
Maybe connections will look at the joint fav and give UDS one last hurrah in this years QM.Maybe my pennies on him for the QM should not be torn up just yet Wink
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 21:30
Agree it did show he had more pace than LIT.
It also showed to me that DDS would stay further.
Think he looks tailor made for a King George.

I’m only replying to your posts.
By:
GAZO
When: 11 Feb 20 21:31
thats the thing with DDS,some see beating UDS over 2 miles as a scalp,some dont
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 21:34
Altior beating him is though ??

I think it’s the race of the meeting now DDS is taking them both on.

May the best horse win and prove they are the new/old superstar.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 21:39
Well that was a tad tongue in cheek.But it is the form that has Defi as the price he is, and I am convinced it would have been a lot closer had UDS not missed the 2nd last.
Anyway UDS wont run in the race,and Defi may win the race.

As for the future I am just trying to summise where Defi will end up running,not crab his 2m credentials this season.
Ive seen evidence that hes comfortable over the 2m distance,ive also seen evidence that suggests to me he will be effective over further than the JLT distance.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 21:52
I do agree with you, its the race of the meeting for me too.
And the face that its the CC is a right bonus!!
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Feb 20 21:53
Fact!!   Tired now !
By:
Hibore
When: 11 Feb 20 21:53
He’s definitely a very flexible horse that has won over further (maybe because he outspeeded a 3mile plus horse in LIT) but his finishing kick is his most potent weapon which he’s demonstrated over the last two races in very very good times.

Altior looked good on Saturday but not invincible and can remember the forum virtually unanimous that he needs further just after his win last season. There is not much between them at all.

CPS travels well and if getting up the hill will make this a race to saviour.
By:
GAZO
When: 11 Feb 20 21:53
what distance he is  effective over is for the future but for this race i think he may need it pretty soft going over 2 miles to win this,still think altior is the one to beat but CPS jumping could get them in trouble and i'm sure ken pitterson in the weekender said that he didnt think CPS was fully fit on his last run when beating Min which if correct might make him the one to beat,a great race if they all run but as someone put earlier probally not a betting race unless already on
By:
impossible123
When: 11 Feb 20 23:45
On National Hunt unless a horse runs from the front eg Sabin Du Loir/Desert Orchid/Faugheen to win their races I'd tend not heed the winning times for these reasons eg ground/pace/runners/etc, even on the Flat unless they are Group races.

DDS has not impressed me this season despite winning the two recognised trials for this race, why? His opponents. And, the only time he faced a promising novice he was put in his place, right and proper by CPS.

I think the Ascot race for Altior has elevated the opinion and status of DDS. Also, I do not think considering Sceau Royal is helpful as he's inconsistent and ground dependent as shown by the sizeable margin of defeat he'd encountered in the soft by Altior and DDS; he was even beaten by Bun Doran!

2 miles on an easy track will suit CPS more than Altior or DDS. And, 2m at Cheltenham is too short for DDS either, in my opinion esp in the presence of Altior.
By:
irishone
When: 12 Feb 20 08:32
Altior is a cert , for a place, the question is who is going to beat him ? Henrys has to have soft, willies are right at the top of their game and there are three to chose from if not four,  hobbs at 2\1 not for me and nichols in wrong part of the world. Its hendo v willie again
By:
muse
When: 13 Feb 20 00:06
Imp, what more can any hprse do but win impressively?

This is where formbook literalism lets you down with winning performances.

All they can do is dot up.  Neither horse nor jockey care whether they win by X lengths plus against Y rival at Z weights to impress you.

Form study is important, but watching horses carefully by watching them on video, if not live, is a crucial part of that, not an optional adjunct to the results pages.
By:
irishone
When: 13 Feb 20 00:38
The guy is an ejit, he would want them to do three cartwheels and a triple salko before they crossed the line
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Feb 20 11:21
I do understand nevertheless, I believe the main opposition to Altior is Chacun Pour Soi. I think Defi Du Seuil will make his customary odd mistake over 2m. And, the finishing kick of Altior is too potent for others to deal with at the business end.
By:
Hibore
When: 13 Feb 20 14:56
Imp, Kemboy was going to beat Delta work in the Irish Gold Cup if I remember rightly. Length here and 3 lengths there...luckily it's not that simple.
I'd watch "Upping the Ante" when they say anyone saying they know who wins the Champion Chase is lying...how can you know when they are so closely matched.
By:
impossible123
When: 13 Feb 20 15:41
I'll admit I was fairly disappointed with the performance of Kemboy in the Irish Gold Cup however, I'd not anticipated the incessant watering after the 1st day - the sticky ground did him no favour thus the sketchy jumping. Nevertheless, he seemed to have improved against Delta Work (jumped and ridden well by Kennedy), and Presenting Percy, according to his finishing position and distance beaten.

I believe if the ground at Cheltenham in March is better (could be soft but not sticky), and his past running was not an aversion to the course I'd be more than hopeful.

Regards this race, I was an admirer of DDS in The Triumph Hurdle, and after. As a crack 2 miler chaser despite Tingle Creek and Shloer victories I'm not convinced - he needs further than 2m, I firmly believe. But, I think his defeat by CPS in Ireland was telling.

I'm very relief and happy to see the lightning acceleration of Altior at the business end is still with him this season, and as such is the one to beat (again).
By:
duffy
When: 13 Feb 20 17:22
I don't know about lightning acceleration but you do have to admit that he was positively spritely up the run in, he scooted away.

But the stereo typical comment we repeatedly hear about Altior, "if he's close at the last etc etc etc", that means little in isolation. If he's close at the last but the pace that CPS made him go through-out the race was such that he was forced to go into the red zone earlier and for an extended period of time then that finishing kick won't be there.

We know that Altior hits a flat spot against significantly lesser rivals, but they could never apply enough pressure to stretch him at that point to capitalize. Douvan aside CPS and DDS are a better class of animal to what he's faced so far.

Yes Altior may well be "there" at the last, but it's only by seeing how he has absorbed what's gone before will we know what comes next.

The finishing kick isn't going to be able to be deployed regardless!!.
By:
buddeliea
When: 14 Feb 20 10:58
C Emery out to 30 on the exchange !!  Any news anyone??
By:
Hibore
When: 14 Feb 20 11:19
Looks like he's a goner...
By:
buddeliea
When: 14 Feb 20 11:22
It does,but no news yet.
Looks like someone knows though!!
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 14 Feb 20 11:37
could be supplemented to the champion hurdle
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 14 Feb 20 11:39
last i heard he is ok but the champion hurdle is possible
By:
buddeliea
When: 14 Feb 20 12:10
I think its not that myself Foyles
Hes 25 for that last I looked.
By:
buddeliea
When: 14 Feb 20 12:17
Come in a bit on here for CH,more drift for this.
Maybe you are right Foyles.
One think for sure,there are some that know more than others do.
By:
foxy
When: 14 Feb 20 12:52
He is entered over hurdles at Gowran tomorrow
By:
foxy
When: 14 Feb 20 12:54
A race won by the likes of
Danoli
Hardy eustace
In de sceaux
Solwhit
Newmill
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