Cheltenham Festival
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Altior
Altior
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No chance Nicky will run him at Punchestown as a novice after a long season.
He blames himself for running Sprinters at Punchestown (after the 2013 champion and John Melling) and feels it contributed to his injuries. Pulled uo in his next race the following Christmas It's a shame that Nicky went over fences to duck WPM's hurdling battalion at start of season as firmly believe he could be a multiple champion hurdle winner. 85K for the Arkle in contrast to in excess of 250k for the champion hurdle (ignoring how much more prestigious a champion is) |
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The answer to "why would he run in the Arkle" is put simply, because he would have one other horse to beat, albeit a very good one.
He's lacking nothing in education as he's just thumped the same horses Douvan would be thumping in 4 weeks time probably just as easily. If he came up short, so what? we can all assume the Arkle was a penalty kick without it sitting on the connections mantlepiece. |
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"why would he run in the CC"
 Not a Freudian slip. |
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I think Altior will have a better turn of foot over Douvan should he jump the last a length or two down against Douvan. I'm also hoping they meet t x'mas time in the Tingle Creek as I believe that is where Altior will be heading.
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The Tingle Creek is run at Sandown in the first week of December, not at Kempton over Christmas.
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The race that you think is at Kempton?
I saw another post where you thought that a horse was a novice because of the calendar year. Baffling how you go on with such authority in all fairness. |
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what a prospect for next season if both altior and douvan both pish up on the bridle at the festival ,
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Well I think if Mullins did have the Arkle at the back of his mind for Yorkhill, then that's out of the window now after Altior's run.
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Altio will win the Arkle, Douvan will win the QMCC and they will both meet at Aintree imo
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not impossible stars!!! crossed my mind
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I don't think they'll meet at Aintree because the only option to do so would be the Melling Chase and I doubt Henderson will want to step Altior up in trip to meet Douvan in open company.He's only been as far as 2m 2f once so far in a match.
Assuming all goes to plan in the Arkle he'll surely run in either the Maghull Novice Chase at Aintree or the Ryanair Novice Chase at Punchestown but not both. |
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....
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I wonder if they'll meet at all. Douvan could well go up in trip next season with no Vautour, they've always talked about him as a possible gold cup horse.
Aside from that, does anyone see any similarities with Denman? Might just be his looks, the little white spot, the ears and hind quarters, obviously a bit smaller at this stage and has to win the championship races but I think he has a very similar look |
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I agree Resner.
No way will they meet this year. Douvan will run at Punchestown and Altior Aintree. No trainers champ for Mullins this year so doubt he'll send any of his main stars to Aintree this year. Onto next year, I expect they'll up Douvan, robbing the racing public of a great matchup. They'll probably send Min QMCC, Douvan Ryanair and Djak will be Ricci's GC runner again. I don't think they'll think twice about putting Douvan in the Ryanair if its an easier race to win sadly. Anyways that's next year, let's concentrate on this first!!!!! |
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Of course they won't meet.
Probably not this season or ever. Sadly, there are too many opportunities to avoid each other. Imagine Douvan will be tried over longer next season once he's disposed of the third division in the QM. Altior's presence would certainly encourage that, as would Ricci's aim of winning a Gold Cup (unless Djakadam gets there this season). |
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I guess it depends on whether Douvan can stay 3 miles.
Are we having Vautour all over again?? Personally I think, if they want to find out, they would be better finding out as early in the season as possible,so can fall back to 2 miles without affecting the horse too much. Surely this horse aint Ryanair?? I do like the Ryanair as a race,but Douvan is to my eyes one of the best I have ever seen chasing,and that goes back much longer than I wish it did!! If he aint a 3 miler,than leave him at the distance for the cream speedsters,which he clearly is. Not many with his speed can win top top races at 3m and plus,Kauto did but what a star he was,and I dare say some could mention one or two others,but right now I cant think of too many. They tried it with Vautour,and ended up with a horse that one a JLT and a Ryanair,pretty good races, but not races a horse like he was should be remembered for. It would in my opinion be a real shame if Douvan did not go down in history as an all time great,becuase I firmly believe he can do if he is allowed to run at the distance where he delivers his best. As for Altior,hes an exceptional novice who would at least get second in this years QM. He will be right at the top next season,if he aint already! If both he and Douvan go 2m chasing next season I personally think connections of both should not even think about avoiding a clash in the QM. I said earlier that Douvan was to my eyes one of the best I have seen.....would not be at all surprised if Altior turns out to be as well. |
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Agree entirely Budd, and sorry didn't mean to hijack the Altior thread about Douvan.
I agree that he should never be anywhere near a Ryanair, but I wouldn't put anything past that lot. Imo they were just about to put a reigning Champion Hurdle winner in the mares! I think they are all about numbers and records. If we are in the same situation as last year when Mullins has a chance of the English championship he'll be even more likely to go for the easy race, and sacrifice Min agasint Altior so they can pick up the Ryanair prize money; hope I'm wrong though. I think Douvan can be an all time great, but only if they race him against the best. At the minute he's beaten up Sizing John and The Game Changer a few times. Beating Altior next year would be a huge step in cementing a legacy. If they have King George ambitions for Douvan, maybe go for the Melling or the Bowl this year as a first step. I'd keep him over 2m for the next few years myself, whilst the speed is there. As for Altior, he blew me away yesterday. I must have been the only sucker who thought Fox Norton might be able to beat him! Imagine if both stayed over 2m for a couple of years and we had some Moscow Flyer/Well Chief/Azertiop races? |
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I love reading all your comments and opinions, on this Cheltenham forum, guys.
It really adds interest during build-up to the Festival. So thanks for your contributions  |
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"As for Altior, he blew me away yesterday. I must have been the only sucker who thought Fox Norton might be able to beat him!"
No you weren't!  |
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 I'm not saying I thought FN would win yesterday,but I must admit I weren't expecting him to be blown away like that!! Chief If we could have a few clashes like we had with Moscow and co,that would be something for sure. Keep hoping!!! |
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Cheers MD
The forum is definitely quieter this year,but we are having a lot less squabbles,and more of swapping opinions and views which for me is what this forum is all about,and to be honest, some of the people I have got to know on here I would rather listen to than most on TV. |
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imagine altior v douvan plus a field of about 8 making up the numbers , tingle creek, sandown, good to soft , the media build it into a kauto /denman type clash ,hype it to the max , ! place would be be rammed to the rafters.
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I know where I will be that day Foyles!!
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soz thats assuming evrything goes as expected this season and both bubbles are intact ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^,
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If he aint a 3 miler,than leave him at the distance for the cream speedsters,which he clearly is.
Agree 100%. With the way things for gone for Ricci recently i can't see the connections messing around with Douvan too much. I'd say the plan is to definitely step him up in trip next season with the KG being the aim. Any stamina doubts between now and then and it's right back to CC pronto. What a spectacle that Douvan v. Altior clash would be but so would Douvan running in the GC. I'll happily take either. |
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Well, they could have that match up in 4 weeks couldn't they?, Douvan is there and waiting, he isn't going anywhere. Yes the Arkle is a great race, but in recent years (in no small part to the creation of the JLT) it is a great race in name only. Yesterday Altior smashed up the exact same horses that Douvan will be smashing up in 4 weeks time, strike while the irons hot I say, although I don't blame them for being a bit too wary of Douvan
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dont think they will face each other if at all, till next season duffy, although it would be a great spectacle to see them clash in the tingle creek, perhaps in hindsight it would be better for racing if they avoided each other and remained unbeaten and then clash in the big one the champion both arriving at the top of their game!
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clash in the champion next season ^^^^^^^
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They could Duffy, but when have you known Hendo to run a novice in a senior race at the festival?
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Connections of Altior should not go chasing after Douvan, the more experienced horse; wait till the time is right eg Tingle Creek or next CC, but certainly not at Punchestown.
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Duffy. It's not about creating great races for the punters and fans though. Are you honestly telling me, that if you owned Altior, you wouldn't want to go to the Arkle and give your horse the chance of an easy option in a prestigious race and enjoy another Festival winner.
You'd rather go and take on arguably the best horse in training... one WPM has said might be the best he's ever had? |
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That is what I would do subject to the trainer's approval.
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CCM
I'm playing devil's advocate and whether you like it or not it is a valid debate that is going to receive a lot of coverage in the next 4 weeks although ultimately it probably isn't going to happen, but it is most definitely a valid conversation to have and not one to be dismissed out of hand as nonsenses as you seem to suggest. IMO. |
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I dont think it will happen but its more likely with the likes of coneygree and thistlecrack showing whats possible.
The arkle is really a stepping stone to the CC but if hes already good enough then go for it i say. Its not like Hendo can say hes worried the horse isnt ready for it yet, hes just pitched him into open company and he laughed at everything. Makes you wonder if Sprinter could have won 3 instead of 2 and an arkle. |
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If Altior is owned by Gigginstown then it is a possibility meeting Douvan in the CC next March, any other owner next to zero chance, I'd have thought.
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Duffy. Did I say it was nonsense? Just asked you a perfectly valid question...
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No surprise that Altior's been left in the Champion Chase...to shadow Douvan (perhaps), but Douvan left in the Ryanair? What is the reason behind this bizarre decision-making by connections, to avoid Altior?
Post Vautour's late gate-crashing in the Ryanair last year it is not beyond the realm of reality, I guess. |
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Its not bizarre decision making at all. Its covering your bases.
What if Douvan falls at the first in the QMCC but is 100% fine? Wouldnt be a million they decided to run him in the Ryanair the next day. For the minimal entry fees it makes perfect sense to cover all options imo. |
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I thought you were an expert at thinking outside of the box anyway?
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Its typical Mullins protocol.
Final decs for Ryanair are on the Tuesday so a fall in the QM will not make it possible to run on the Thursday anyway. Just wasting more of Ricci money with pointless entries. |