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I would agree Duffy,visually he did look special.
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Clutching at straws springs to mind.
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Why's that?
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the other jocks in the supreme wont give him a lead, hope to get him free then succomb up the hill
only way they can get it beat prob be a first for the cheltenham festival looks a total monster to me, how do they get them beat in france |
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Having written down a couple to back in next couple days for the supreme, it's great when looking through ones online accounts to find that you have already backed them in the any race market of billys at bigger and double current odds
Buveur Dair @ 20/1 1/5th 1-3 and Yorkhill @ 10/1 1/5 1-3 ![]() |
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They can get him beat by being on a better horse,or is that not possible to have a better horse?
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Yorkhill, Yanworth and Tombstone would be the three to take him on imo, and for the sake of the Supreme, I really hope those three (or Bellshill instead of Yorkhill) turn up.
I'm hoping we see Buveur D'Air out again soon - haven't decided whether he looks top drawer, or Wait For Me was terrible on his debut - probably a bit of both. |
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Altior I would add to that list Chief.
No reason why they should not be in the Supreme if the connections of them think it's the right race. They have done no less than Min. Wait for me as you mentioned is another that could possibly threaten if he. Continues improving his jumping. Just never know with novices......well some seem to think they do,but they don't. Still lots to look forward to in the Supreme mate,and the ARkle and CH ain't cut and dried either. Keep the faith Chief. |
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Yeah mate, despite not particularly fancying him, Altior is in the mix too, and Henderson knows how to prep one for the Supreme (although I remember being on Darlan at 20/1, and looking back now, I have no idea how he didn't beat Cinders and Ashes!)
I think the Long Dog/Tombstone race in December will turn out to be a good race, and I'm actually surprised Long Dog is the price he is for the Neptune, I thought he'd be shorter. Tombstone travelled well, but was interfered with a bit turning for home, so I think 25's on him is a very good price. |
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Russell talking about Tombstone said he won't lose to Long Dog again,he likes this one I feel!!
I was thinking he would more likely go Neptune? |
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I think Altior is a bit different to some of the real good hurdlers that Hendo has seen get beat in the Supreme.....Sprinter,Spirit Son,Darlan etc.
He's more of the type that he will really go for the race with rather than a bit of wrapping in cotton wool. Just get that feeling watching his style of racing that he's a horse that will really tough it out as a novice. If he's thereabouts up,that hill he will take some beating imo. |
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Neptune would be a worry Budd, but he pulled quite hard in his last race, and that was over 2m, so I think a fast paced 2 miles would be perfect for him.
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cant see yanworth or altior bellshill getting anywhere near min never mind beating him
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Why's that?
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I'd fear Yanworth for sure if he goes to the Supreme, a really good horse imo and was for me the one to take out of the Bumper last year.
Altior...I know he's highly rated etc but a narrow beating of Maputo doesn't really get my juices flowing as far as Supreme Novices' form goes. Just lacks a bit of star quality for me but would expect him to be finishing well and on the premises, just can't really have him as the winner. |
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my default is to try and pick holes in short priced novices pre festival but he was very impressive, would n't want to be opposing him at this stage.
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Well Maputo was looking good and racked up a fair few performances.
Who knows how good he could have been. Maybe sometimes people hear about a new superstar,like what they see and then dismiss the rest. One of the rest might just be a superstar. |
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Using the rating of the consistent Maputo (143) as a yardstick is Altior good enough to beat Yanworth (145), let alone Min?
I doubt it very much and I believe its current price of 7/1 is largely due to his 'connections' rather than abilities shown so far; I also believe if Yanworth was to swerve the Supreme and run in the Neptune instead it would be done solely because of the 'reputation' of Min (Modus, in the same ownership as Yanworth, is not good enough for either race); however, if Bellshill, the current 5/1 fav for the Neptune but without the pace to match Min, is rerouted to the Supreme to accommodate Yanworth then in my opinion 'history' is repeating itself ie it is akin to switching Shaneshill (Bellshill) to do battle with Douvan (Min) in last year's Supreme; if so, I believe it would be a mistake as I do not see Yanworth seeing out the Neptune trip as well as Bellshill in the Neptune or others eg Shantou Village, Long Dog, etc. |
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Is Altior not allowed to improve for a run? And be better as the season progresses??
I would also say that Maputo is a darn sight better horse than what Min has faced. Your statement about priced up cos of connections......same could be said of Min....at a far skinnier price. |
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buddeliea,
I agree: on the surface, Maputo is a damn sight better horse, form wise, however, the reputation of Min's trainer/owner cannot be totally disregarded given their excellent track record recently hence its puny price; I'd also rather have Min at 2/1 (win) than Altior at 7/1 (e/w) in case Altior (in my opinion unlikely to win) and does not run into a place ie I do not wish to lose 2x capital, given the lack of depth of the British contingent and 'quality' of the Irish. That's is the gist or hub of racing - a sport about opinions! |
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Of course opinions differ,and would not have it any other way.
Re lack of depth with the British and quality of the Irish.......do we actually know right now?? I don't!! In fact I think the British novices could be better.......could be. Min has looked impressive,and I like Yorkhill. Not so taken with others. There's quiet a few British ones I like. |
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buddeliea
Could be....I sincerely hope you however, the evidence of the recent Irish forays into the British scene and 'stealing' the loot repeatedly do not auger well for the state of British Jump Racing eg even the mediocre Irish runner, Open Eagle, a 20/24f horse was able to finish runner up in a 16f race, with the 3rd (Marracudja) a further 7 lengths behind it. I hope Altior, Yanworth, Moon Racer, and other potential British 'runners' take part in the Supreme despite Min. |
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I think Hendersons two will line up,Yanworth too,they look the best Supreme candidates for the Brits at this stage.
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I hope so...it will give more credence to the 'winner' whoever that may be.
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Well we all want the best 2m novices running in the Supreme.
Fair enough avoiding Sorinter Sacre in a QM at his best,but avoiding a twice raced Novice Hurdler? And one yet to beat a class rival?? |
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Rather than just complaining about the Min hype and how ridiculously short he is, why don't you try and get a price for next year's Arkle? You could be ahead of the game. Or how about Up For Review for next year's RSA?
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Delsers - UFR always unlikely to get his ground at Chelters - you'd be better off backing him for the 2017/18 Lexus.
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impossible123 10 Jan 16 09:26 Joined: 07 Sep 15 | Topic/replies: 75 | Blogger: impossible123's blog
Using the rating of the consistent Maputo (143) as a yardstick is Altior good enough to beat Yanworth (145), let alone Min? I doubt it very much and I believe its current price of 7/1 is largely due to his 'connections' rather than abilities shown so far; I also believe if Yanworth was to swerve the Supreme and run in the Neptune instead it would be done solely because of the 'reputation' of Min (Modus, in the same ownership as Yanworth, is not good enough for either race); however, if Bellshill, the current 5/1 fav for the Neptune but without the pace to match Min, is rerouted to the Supreme to accommodate Yanworth then in my opinion 'history' is repeating itself ie it is akin to switching Shaneshill (Bellshill) to do battle with Douvan (Min) in last year's Supreme; if so, I believe it would be a mistake as I do not see Yanworth seeing out the Neptune trip as well as Bellshill in the Neptune or others eg Shantou Village, Long Dog, etc. I am sorry impossible123 but you confused the feck out of me with this post. No one apart from Altior and Min has confirmed which race they will run in yet or is it a case of your trying to 2nd guess where they will run ![]() |
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SEATHESTARS,
My apology if my post confused you - that was not intentional. I was merely stating what A King said immediately post Yanworth latest win ie the horse would be aim at the Supreme or words along those lines (I'm too lazy to type out word for word what A King said then and I'm not computer savvy to paste either; his latest statement where he said..."BG will have a word with its owner........." I'm on Yanworth - I want Yanworth to run in the Supreme and not duck Min as initially intended - but I've grave doubts post the latest statement. All the best to you with the Cheltenham Festival! |
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My understanding is that Maputo got injured during Altiors race so he beat an injured horse. I had Altior backed that day and I felt he may have been lucky.
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See what you mean re Yanworth.
I took what I thought was a slight risk in taking 20 for the Supreme as opposed to any race odds. Now because I have been really impressed with this horse I have had to cover for the Neptune as that risk has increased with the trainers latest comments. I really hope it's not because of Min that a change of plans could happen,cos if it is we could have rather a small field supreme. |
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Can't see shantou village, yanworth and barters hill all being declared to run for the neptune trial at the end of january Would be some race and I'd hate to price it up, but I'd expect atleast one to back out and go else where,
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I would n't be that surprised - or at all perturbed - if Shantou Village went straight to the festival, looks like they want to keep him away from bad winter ground (although there is some respite from the rain this week at last).
There's the Grade 2 at Warwick that The New One won next Saturday - Yanworth could go for that I suppose - although the Midnight Prayer coughing might be a concern, Barters Hill was out just after Christmas so he might well wait for Cheltenham Trials Day. Warwick is near Skelton's base so something like North Hill Harvey might turn up there although stable went a little out of form and then quiet. Of course, Mullins might want to send some of his to most of the remaining UK trials too. With regard to Modus, the way he has been campaigned and connections' modus operandi (pardon the pun!)has Betfair Hurdle written all over it - as his target, not for one moment suggesting he'll hack up there. |
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I've said above I really like Tombstone for the Supreme. Next target is the Delloite, so not many clues off that as its 2m2f. Recent winners of that have largely been split between Supreme and Neptune too.
Don't fancy taking the 8's and race when 25's is available for the Supreme. |
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Agreed re Tombstone , really keen early , one mistake and major meat in sandwich turning in . Obviously stays but surely faster pace will suit as well , so toss a coin .Have had to back in both .
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned by anyone on the forum about min is that he cost €6000 euros.
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MIN does not have many letters in his name and it did not take many Euros to buy him from France either as Willie Mullins suggested on Sunday that the hot favourite for the Sky Bet Supreme Novices' Hurdle has turned out to be one of the biggest bargains of his career.
Guy Petit initially purchased Min in November 2013 on behalf of trainer Yannick Fouin for just €6,000 and, despite two rather tame efforts at Auteuil, Mullins' French experts Pierre Boulard and Harold Kirk decided it was worth taking a chance on the Walk In The Park gelding. "Min was not overly expensive at all," said Mullins about the Rich and Susannah Ricci-owned five-year-old who was on Sunday cut to a general 6-4 (from 7-4) after bookmakers reported sustained support for him to win the opening race at the Cheltenham Festival after Saturday's sizzling success at Punchestown. Clue in the pedigree "If you look at his form in France, he was beaten quite a distance in his two runs, so he didn't have a huge price tag. The reason we were so interested in him at the time was because he was by Walk In The Park, who was the same sire as Douvan. "At the time we thought quite a bit of Douvan, even though it was very early in his career, so we thought it might be worth taking a chance on Min and that is what we did. "Yannick Fouin did recommend him to us and Harold and Pierre both liked him. But he wasn't overly expensive at all. It is not always about spending the most money and Min proves that." Mullins said that Min is unlikely to run again before the Cheltenham Festival after emerging from his impressive win in the Sky Bet Moscow Flyer Novice Hurdle in good shape."I would say it's likely Min will head straight there now. He was fine this morning," Mullins added. |
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Cheap at 6000 euros but that was before Getafix gave him the magic potion.
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bit disingenuous that story, previous connections paid 6000 Euros for him but you can bet that Mullins and the Riccis paid considerably more than that when buying him privately.
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I don't think RR paid more than 30K for him, and there are Nicky and Nicholls owners who spend tenfold more for a single horse. Josses Hill was bought for 100K and Faugheen who beat him by miles was bought for alot less by RR. I think RR mentioned he's not willing to pay stupid money for his horses and changed the source from France and Ireland a few times depending on where it was cheaper. He changed the game and because of him, everything from the build-up to the festival, is far more interesting. Brilliant!
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