After the initial positive impression from Cue Card on Saturday I'm now edging more to the questioning of the form just like many did from the Charlie Hall, maybe unfair on him but with regards to the GC you can't count dynaste or ballynagour and holywell hates the ground on Saturday, that leaves conti and I just wonder if he isn't just regressing now.

Considering the million pound incentive I wonder why Coneygree wasn't targeted at this race, I know he would have missed it but that's with hindsight.

Time will tell who is right and who is wrong, but I think Cue Card is dismissed far too easily.

I see him as nothing other than a 3m+ chaser these days; at no point in the Charlie Hall or the Betfair did I think he was looking like running out of steam, and I was at Haydock, and the ground was very tacky and he wasn't stopping.

As shockster says, Conti is an excellent benchmark - look at his record on flat tracks and he was dismissed out of sight.  If the Betfair would have been run at Cheltenham, I'd say you have a point, but it was ay Haydock, a track Conti likes.

When he has been healthy, Cue Card very rarely doesn't run his race, and he settles a lot better now, so I don't the distance as being an issue at all.

When you have negatives about those at the top of the market, around 20's on a horse like Cue Card is good value to me.  No doubt there is the potential to have at least one superstar in the Gold Cup, but Coneygree won't be as effective if it's good, Vautour not proven over the distance, Don C has ran twice at Cheltenham and beaten twice, Don P not yet raced out of novice company.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Cue Card will win, but he has just as good a chance as some of those priced up a lot shorter.

I never thought that Cue Card would stay the Gold Cup trip-until Saturday. That was by far his best ever run, even if Conti was a bit below par, Dynaste and the other two were a furlong behind. He would have won by another 10 lengths if they had gone another furlong, and his jumping cost him another 4 lengths compared to Silv. Conti. He should be joint fav. with Coneygree with Don Cossack, Vautour and Djakadam next in the market. I don't see the course as an issue as he has won a Ryanair.

Don fell first time at Chelt when going very well, and was hampered couple of times the 2nd time at Chelt. The way he stayed up the hill that day suggests he handles the Chelt really well so that argument against him is superficial, to say the least. Has beat decisively the 2nd and 3rd from last year's GC so he should be favourite, whether 6/1 offers value so far out is subjective but after he'll win the KG I doubt you'll get anything bigger than 3/1 for him.

Respect your points Chief,and yes CC does look better now he is properly over his problems.....but he will be 10 next March.
I just think any form with Conti,Dynaste etc etc just is nowhere near what will be required to be a major threat to what I believe is the best bunch of stayers...and young ones at that,we have had for some time.
Cue Card is gonna have to beat Coneygree,RTR,Djackadam,Don and Don,and possibly Vautour.
As impressive as he looked on Saturday,I just cannot see him beating most if not any of them.

Conti could not even beat Lord Windermere. The last few Gold Cups.....Lw,Bobsworth,synchronised,Christ they would have been lapped behind Coneygree,in fact Lw probably was.
Different kettle of fish we have now.......bloody hope so,otherwise I am gonna look rather foolish come March!!

indeed,all good fun,and boy are we gonna have some in the build up to this Gold Cup.

One thing Cue Card has done....fancy him or not.......he has added an extra intrigue to the build up.
More the merrier I say.

Conygree was a novice with only 3 chases under his belt when he won the GC. But he was an 8yo and Djakadam was only a 6yo albeit with 5 runs - surely one would normally expect the 6yo to show the more improvement. The GC, and especially a very competitive one, can leave a lasting mark on the participants and its quite possible that some of the first 3 home may not reproduce that form again. Not saying it will happen but it adds to the puzzle. Very often it is said that such and such a race at the festival will be the best ever quality wise but very often we come away disappointed. Currently we are looking forward to a quality GC but by the the evening of March 18th we may discover the swan population to be smaller than expected. Hopefully they all get there fit and well anyway. The GC would be seen by many as being the most important race of the festival and the blue ribbon of NH but so often it disappoints. Perhaps this will be the year it fits its billing.

Jolly, I think if Valseur Lido was owned by anyone else, I think he'd be going for the Gold Cup, but with them having so many, the Ryanair might be his race.  If he stays the marathon Hennessey trip then he might enter the picture though.  Any in the Hennesey with Gold Cup aspirations like Saphir and Valseur need to be finishing ahead of Coneygree at the weights.

The Giggi ones, I think they'll run Valseur and Sir Des Champs in the Ryanair, the Dons and RTR in the Gold Cup, and possibly drop Clarcam back to 2m for the Champion Chase.  I doubt all 6 will be over though.

Apache Stronghold is my cliff horse mate, and normally where he goes, Valseur goes!

I could definitely see him in a National in the future, and Don Poli too (especially with him having a Becher entry). I reckon Valseur will have a big future over fences, he just raced against top opposition all last year, so don't give up on him yet!!

I like Saphir also, accept that he hasn't the form in the book (as yet) as the others but have a hunch he's a bit special....couldn't have Don Poli for the GC myself, when he goes to sleep half way through the race, they'll be long gone by the time he wakes back up again.

I dunno, cyclops, away from Cheltenham Silvi is as good a yardstick for a 3m chaser as you could wish to have. He won 4 of the 6 available G1s at that distance, other than the CGC, over the last couple of seasons and his record once he has got his seasonal reappearance out of the way bears the closest scrutiny. Dynaste, although short of the very best can also always be relied upon to run a solid race and don't forget that Vieux Lion Rouge won for Pipe on Saturday, by finishing off his race better than the others (which is where the Pipe runners have been struggling so far this season), an encouraging sign that the barn is sending them out fit.
I think that that race was probably a very good effort for CC, whether he can back it up remains to be seen. The memory of him wandering around legless when having them all beat in the KG a couple back is a painful recollection for supporters of the horse, it's his ability to string together big runs that is my concern.
However, the form is in the book and you could argue that he deserves to be second fav, behind Coneygree, based on that. How far do you reckon he would've beaten Ptit Zig on Saturday had he gone to Ascot rather than Haydock?

Basically if Conti was the exact same horse at Haydock and Cheltenham and that was also at a level where Conti is competitive in a GC then you could say, right, what CC does to him here we can rely on it as a guide for the GC and therefore make CC a live contender, but it isn't like that.

If Silvi was the same horse at Chelters as he was at haydock, aintree or kempton, then it's reasonable to assume that he would have won a CGC by now - given that he has won G1s at each of those tracks more than once. The fact that CC beat him away from Cheltenham is surely a stronger indication of decent form than anything else? And if CC likes cheltenham, which I think is a fair assumption then......

I read it the same as you Desmnond. If that would have been the Argento and CC beat Conti 8 lengths on good ground, you'd say CC had everything in his favour. The fact it was at Haydock on soft and he won going away says it was a great performance.

I won't go on about it now until Boxing Day because I'm sure people will get bored of me banging on about CC!!

Think you are all forgetting that Conti is at his best at Xmas,not Haydock in November .
The horses he's beaten ain't much anyway,Dynaste and Menorah!!
Like I've said before they are miles away from the level needed to win this years KG and the Gold cup in March.
Think that's what you need to look at when assessing Cue Cards chances.......the fact that his form ties in with horses below the level of the ones we have now.
For him to have any chance of beating this lot he has to have improved massively......probably need to be a different horse altogether.
Just cannot see it myself,but this is horse racing.

Coneygree in that form,no chance any of the old lot will get anywhere near him imo.
The two that chased him home,Don C and Don P,and possibly Vautour, only ones that would stand a chance of beating Coneygree.
Good ground would make a difference of course,cos Coneygree won't run.
Still could not have Cue Card though, just don't think his form stacks up in the context of this seasons Gold Cup.

The fascination with this year's Gold Cup revolves around the fact that, of the eight principals, four (Coneygree, Djakadam, Road to riches and Don Cossack)have linked form, three are novices untested in open company and the final one, Cue Card, is very much the joker in the pack, having been unconsidered by all until last week's victory. Of course, others may emerge as credible challengers; Coneygree and Djakadam were on no-one's radar this time last year. But, with the possible exception of Sir Des Champs, it's hard to see any amongst the senior brigade throwing down a challenge and the three ex novices were so far clear of their contemporaries that maybe only Valseur Lido could be seen as a likely contender. And, surely, this is not a season when an outstanding novice would be thrown into the fray? 
To be strident about any individual before the form lines merge means having the following beliefs:

Vautour
That he will get the trip, that he will improve upon his best effort so far, that his tendency to jump left last week is not ominous and that he won't be inconvenienced by Coneygree and Road to Riches taking him on for the lead.

Coneygree
That he is not ground dependent, that his current setback is trifling and that Djakadam and Road to Riches ran better at Cheltenham than Punchestown.

Don Cossack
That some of his rivals at Aintree and Punchestown ran to form.

Don Poli
That he can go the pace in a fast run race, that he was over the top at Punchestown and that he can improve.

Cue Card
That he is now a completely different horse to the chaser who has run a previous 19 times. None of his previous form could win him a Gold Cup, certainly not one as competitive as the next is likely to be.

Saphir Du Rheu
That his jumping can hold up in a top class race; that his promise can develop into substance, and that Nicholls will aim him at the race.

Djakadam
That he can improve from last season, and that the apparent lack of enthusiasm from connections (all they seem interested in is Vautour) does not belie concerns.

Road to Riches
That he is a different horse, as stressed by his trainer, on much better ground than last March and that he ran below par at Punchestown.

My Don Cossack thread reveals my own way of looking at it but I can only conclude by saying I've never known such a fascinating puzzle at this stage of the season and such a crop of top class staying chasers, most of whom should be around for at least another couple of seasons. Those that have run this season have recorded 8/8 victories with Vautour the only one less than pitch perfect. Something has to give soon, though it would take a better man than me to predict what.

At this stage I would add that you cannot totally discount the following to differing degrees & I'm sure some of you will disagree.  I am not saying I think they'll win, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility in my mind.

Holywell - Only beaten 10L last year on unfavoured SOFT ground.  If it came up goodish would he get closer?

Gilgamboa - Could he improve sufficiently for a step up in trip?  Will they try? JPM has no credible contender?

Wounded Warrior - Only just behind Valseur Lido & Don Poli at big festivals last year.  Still only 6 so could improve.

Valseur Lido - Similar reasons to Wounded Warrior only 6 and open to more improvement than most.

I agree these are unlikely, but are they impossible?

Shock,
I have backed Holywell on the  strength that he got pretty close on ground not in his favour,and if he got good ground he could  run a big race again and have more chance. I am a tad concerned however on his trainer not being happy and talking about lowering him in grade.
I wonder if the Gold Cup has had an effect on him?