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world hurdle 2014

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Replies: 351
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 26 Jan 14 10:05
An 11yo in a World Hurdle coming back from injury with only one run recently,who has just been beat by Knockara Beau, who Walsh doesn't want to ride, and yer askin me what can possibly beat it in March?
By:
brandyontherocks
When: 26 Jan 14 10:05
I do not have a strong opinion Bud on this race.
I know connection of Reve were originally going to give yesterday's race a swerve as they felt it ruined his world hurdle chance last year.
As it happened they ran yesterday but the jockey told everyone he will not be having a hard race.
They dropped him off the pace which is not his customary position, so yes I think he wasn't run to his best capabilities.

Big Bucks ran well considering his long lay off and the awful ride he was given. But he was beat by KB with Reve not put in the race. There are holes in the form and worth thinking BB is not what he was.
By:
wellchief
When: 26 Jan 14 10:06
I think everyone wanted him to win yesterday, but I'm afraid I'll have to side with youth now.

Zarkandar at 16/1 NRNB is looking very tempting ew. Not knocking Big Bucks at all, but nobody gets rich backing short priced favs at the festival who have question marks about them.

True, there are no obvious dangers, but something will break from the pack and give him a real race, and I'm not sure if he'll be able to repel them like he used to.

Haven't had a play in this race, so these are unbiased views.
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Jan 14 10:06
yep,im still waiting!!
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Jan 14 10:07
ffs brandy,14 months off,injury setback,heavy ground!!!

HARSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By:
alleged22
When: 26 Jan 14 10:10
its not a race im likely to get heavily  involved in, but I have  had a nibble at zarkandar just so I have a vested interest in the race.
By:
brandyontherocks
When: 26 Jan 14 10:11
I've not had a play in the race and won't until nearer the day if at all.

If I could choose one horse to win at the festival this year it would be Big Bucks. Like us all I love the horse. Was gutted yesterday with the ride he was given and hope its not left its mark.

I think he isn't the horse he is but would shout him home and would be happily be proved wrong.
By:
Ramruma
When: 26 Jan 14 10:16
nibble at zarkandar

There is no evidence that Zarkandar stays 3 miles.
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Jan 14 10:20
Thing is hes being judged on a race that involved a lot that was against him thrown at him all at once.

Point I am making is that is bl00dy harsh.

Most horses are allowed a race first time out,without being dismissed, as some seem to be doing on here.
By:
alleged22
When: 26 Jan 14 10:27
ramruna I am of the opinion that the step up to 3 miles for zark will bring some improvement this of course is just my opinion and until he runs over the distance there will be no evidence as you put it
By:
wellchief
When: 26 Jan 14 10:28
I'm personally not dismissing him at all.

He's currently favourite, and rightly so, and at this stage probably is the most likely winner, but just looking for some value because he now has questions to answer and is around 7/4 - 9/4.

One day he will get beat at the festival, most of the great ones have. It doesn't alter the fact he's one of the best ever, but I'd rather look elsewhere now.

I think Zarkandar will stay 3m, and is good value at 16's. He's been crying out for 3m for a couple of years and looks every inch a stayer from his Triumph days.
By:
alleged22
When: 26 Jan 14 10:30
^^^^^^ agree with that well chief
By:
festivalfanatic
When: 26 Jan 14 10:33
Like I said 20 posts ago budd, I'm not sure what to make of the race. On balance, I thought it was a fair effort and was unaware that RDS 'wasn't off'. He looked fantastic, travelled well and jumped well. I've not had a bet and probably won't unless Annie Power pitches up. The romantic in me wants to see the old boy win and victory would bring the roof down.
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Jan 14 10:39
yep,thats fair enough Chief, hes an interesting one, but like a fair few others below BB in the betting hes unknown at the trip.
A fit BB on normal festival ground will make the opposition have to stay very well.

Of course looking elsewhere is also fair enough.....if you feel BB is vulnerable this year, I've been doing that all season!!
Cel Halo, Monksland, Salubrious are all horses I have backed antepost at nice prices, but those were backed with the thinking that BB may not turn up, and if he did, he may just not be the same horse.

I certainly would not be backing horses against him judged on yesterday though!!!!
By:
brandyontherocks
When: 26 Jan 14 10:43
Budd, been wanting to ask you for years. Why are you named after the horse?
By:
Andymca
When: 26 Jan 14 11:12
What price BB without Annie Power?
By:
shockster
When: 26 Jan 14 11:46
I'm very happy with the 3/1 nrnb I got last night from PP. Big Bucks is still the one they all have to beat.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 26 Jan 14 11:57
Enjoyed the race yesterday and it's one of those which for me makes the world hurdle a slightly more interesting race. Big Buck's ran very well and emerged as the best horse in the race but others will be encouraged that the air of invincibility has gone.

Unless a horse plainly isn't trying the best horse on the day at the weights usually wins and I think those criticising STD are being harsh. I'd be far more critical of Williams and Richard Johnson. RDS doesn't win anything without being forced to run hard and if he's quick enough his best performances have come when forcing the pace as in the last two Long Walks. I can't understand why connections would want him running yesterday if he wasn't trying to win and those riding tactics were never going to bring home the bacon. He should have stuck to the original plan in my view and put him away till March because people are entitled to take a dim view of that ride.

It's nowhere near an exact science but in the brief moments before the start they showed Big Buck's walking around and to my eyes he looked as if he could be tightened up a little. I'm sure he'll strip fitter for the run. My worry would be that he had a hard enough race for his first time back in over a year.

At Fisher's Cross put up a much improved performance and was the second best horse at the weights on the day. He's still not yet jumping slickly enough but that was a big step up from December and he must have a decent chance if the ground comes up testing.

The problem is Knockara Beau. Take him out and people would be waxing lyrical about Buck's and Fisher. Unfortunately, you can't get away from the fact of a fully exposed 11 year old 140 odd rated horse turning them over. What to make of that? Laugh
By:
sintonian
When: 26 Jan 14 11:58
Annie Power will run in the Champion Hurdle, regardless of ground. You can't go from 2m last time out and step up to 3 miles for the first time at Championship level. It's not the way to prepare a horse.
By:
wellchief
When: 26 Jan 14 12:06
Very good post Eeternal.

I to think it makes the race more interesting, similar to the Champion Chase.  I also think the critisism of STD is particularly harsh (I would prefer other jocks on Big Bucks but I don't think Sam was a major factor why Big Bucks lost).

As you say, take KB out of the equation and it would be a completely different story, but with him winning (and all credit to him, because he hasn't got much credit yesterday), he does let the form down (I don't even think he's got a World Hurdle entry).

Either way, this will be a good debate on here over the next 7 weeks, that I'm sure will divide opinion.

I can see one of the big bookies taking Big Bucks on nearer the time (probably Laddies as its their race), so if you didn't get the 3/1 yesterday, I'd suggest waiting until nearer the time when there might be a few offers.
By:
brandyontherocks
When: 26 Jan 14 12:16
Inglis Drever was campaigned over 2 miles before stepping up to the World Hurdle, the first time he won it.
By:
ash cpfc
When: 26 Jan 14 12:34

Jan 26, 2014 -- 11:58AM, sintonian wrote:


Annie Power will run in the Champion Hurdle, regardless of ground. You can't go from 2m last time out and step up to 3 miles for the first time at Championship level. It's not the way to prepare a horse.


How many times had Solwhit ran over 3m before the World Hurdle last year?

By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 26 Jan 14 13:02
I think the choice of a shorter prep race for an event is something of a red herring if I'd identified a specific race and trained my horse accordingly. What hasn't been commented on regarding The Power yesterday are the owners and Ruby's comments about her getting lit up. Ruby said it wasn't until heading towards the second last that he got her fully under control.

There's no doubt that the lightning gallop of a champion hurdle and her obvious ability to stay two and a half will mean that wouldn't be a problem so much for the shortest distance. I doubt very much that I'd be wanting to take a mare to Cheltenham for the first time to try a distance she'd never raced over if she's getting lit up running around Doncaster in front of a couple of farmers and their dogs. Imagine how she might respond in front of 50,000 and 20,000 drunken Irishmen roaring their heads off and then trying to get her to settle off a slower gallop in a stayers. Shocked
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Jan 14 14:17
Brandy,
I was a part owner mate.
By:
Ramruma
When: 26 Jan 14 14:36
I know he's not entered and this is before the ICH but I'd have liked to see Jezki go for the World Hurdle. Maybe next year.
By:
Ramruma
When: 26 Jan 14 14:36
I know he's not entered and this is before the ICH but I'd have liked to see Jezki go for the World Hurdle. Maybe next year.
By:
Joist
When: 26 Jan 14 17:06
Given that Knockara Beau is a 140 beast, if Mystic Meg told you before the race that Big Buck's would run 35lbs below his best, would that still be encouraging?
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 26 Jan 14 18:17
Laugh
By:
Joist
When: 26 Jan 14 18:22
I'm not sure how to take that, Bally! I meant it as a genuine question rather than trying to knock those who thought it a good reappearance. I personally can't decide whether it was encouraging or not. Travelled and jumped impeccably, but...Knockara Beau Crazy
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 26 Jan 14 18:28
Take it as a compliment. My view is as above :

11yo
One run since Dec 2012
Been clearly knocked back by the man who was his regular rider
Has just been beat by Knockara Beau
And At Fishers Cross
Who Nicholls nodded at when Nick Luck said "is this the bet of a lifetime" or words to that effect
Is coming back from injury
Could bounce all the way up that Cheltenham hill
Where people are automatically saying there will be good ground in 6 weeks time (probably but who knows)

And I am asked what could possibly beat Big Bucks in 6 weeks time?
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 26 Jan 14 18:30
As per your point, put it this way if you were asked before the race

"see if you get beat by Knockara Beau in today's race would you take 5-2 for the World Hurdle?"

One wonders what the answers would be....

By the way I heard Knockara Beau will come on a ton for the runWink
By:
Joist
When: 26 Jan 14 18:34
Fair points and excellent fuel for debate on this one!

I'm largely inclined to agree and look elsewhere for the winner, but can't quite shirk the 'Big Bucks Factor'. Rule The World's a bit of vallers imo.
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 26 Jan 14 18:36
He is the best staying hurdler I have ever seen but is a bookies dream as we speak.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 26 Jan 14 18:54
from the horse racing forum ......ruby on big bucks today " the horse I rode would have left that winner at the furlong pole ",ruby clearly thinks big bucks is a shadow of his former self..........not my quote lads see horse racing forum !
By:
Ramruma
When: 26 Jan 14 19:37
Been clearly knocked back by the man who was his regular rider

Actually that was a bit naughty of Paul Nicholls -- he really must have known that neither Ruby nor AP McCoy could commit to ride Big Buck's in the World Hurdle before they knew if their retainers would enter anything.
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Jan 14 20:38
So by your being unable to answer my question Bally,i presume you cannot name a horse to beat BB if fit on normal festival ground.
So all you have is a horse blowing up near the end of a 1st time out race after 14 months off the track with an injury.
Of course that never happens with horses!!
Laugh
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 26 Jan 14 21:09
I don't think Ruby is bringing us tablets of stone there. Big Buck's is beaten by Knockara giving him 8lbs. No shiit that isn't the horse which Ruby rode. The question which is being debated is which horse will turn up in March? Will it be the one yesterday, the old one or something in between?
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 26 Jan 14 21:13
budd

If I may but you gave two different statements in one sentence. You said if he turns up he's the one to beat in March. Logic and the odds would suggest that's a fair comment but earlier in the sentence you said the only danger is him not turning up. I'd suggest there are far more dangers than that.
By:
Tory
When: 26 Jan 14 22:40
Look at the improvement from OC today after he blew up last time.

Granted, he is a 5yr old and BB may not come back the horse he was, but if he improves a fair bit from yesterday, he may not need to be as good as was to take care of the opposition. He was so far superior before that a slight regress would be fine
By:
Ballydoyle
When: 26 Jan 14 23:14
Just given you 9 reasons Buddelia. It's no 2012 anymore son
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