Cheltenham Festival
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Arkle 2014
Arkle 2014
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Wille no doubt ants CF to be a Gold Cup fires ……should read……... Wille no doubt wants CF to be a Gold Cup horse. Apologies.
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He is not running now. Seriously, what a tool WPM is. Why say they are going to clash and then not bother?
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yonger not declared
looks like the same nightmare i faced with tidal bay a few years back horrible game  |
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filth sint filth
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b0ll0x……why even mention it if there was a doubt. Seriously. Willie is quite within his right to keep people guessing but to openly state in his own column they would race against each other and then 48 hours later change that for no apparent reason is just purposefully misleading the punters. Out of order Willie. Red card.
At least I had a good nights sleep and won't be concerning myself with this issue any more. |
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This is pretty low of him. Being a CF arkle backed its positive from a punting view but I don't like the way people had been misled here, it ain't right!
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It's been clear with practically every soundbyte coming out of the yard particularly from walsh that CF is the golden boy, they've not hid that....CF's march toward arkle participation is the foremost plan, once you accept that it becomes easier.
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You've got to ask yourself this....Am I really surprised...answer has to be no.....we've all seen it before with them.
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On another note, we've got 3 front runners in a 6 horse race. This could be crazy
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I had thought exactly like you Duffy and had bet accordingly but my confidence was shattered in last few days. Reckon all is well and we are back on track!
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CF's march toward arkle participation is the foremost plan, once you accept that it becomes easier.
lots of laughs duffy cracking statement |
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Well its a big shame cos FY has imo the best 2m form seen this season, and it would have been a race to enjoy. Its still an interesting race if the others still run.
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Be very interesting to see how CF deals with Trifolium and Defy Logic.
Road to Riches im looking forward to seeing back in trip as well. Race lost a fair bit now, but still fascinating as far as the Arkle is concerned. Maybe after the race it will actually dawn on them which horse is the 2miler!!!  |
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It actually makes you wonder just what they are seeing at home from the pair of them...I've not backed CF but reading between the lines it sounds like he is very much impressing them....despite what FY has done on the track, I'd be willing to accept that he's nowhere near the same horse as CF.
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Maybe mate, but I prefer to see it for myself.
Lets see what he does against 2 horses that FY beat easily. |
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Even without FY in the race, we will see which is the better prospect for the Arkle, or should do imo.
Maybe that's their way of thinking,and FY was left in in case CF had a setback? Cos by comparism they can find out without running the 2 together. |
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duffy, you are making out that champagne is clearly a better horse, when you don't actually know fact...but are happy to speculate and accept he is the better horse just on the hype
ask yourself the question if champagne fever hadn't won at the past 2 festivals would you still be coming up with this drivel? walsh will decide which race the horse goes for, as he wants 2 winners at the festival, it certainly doesn't mean champagne is the better horse that is for sure |
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Harry...who do you think that walsh and mullins think is the better prospect over 2 miles?
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I've accepted CF is their Arkle horse. But I won't accept a trainer saying in a written column, something which he is paid, that catergorically one thing will happen only for them to then change their minds 48 hrs later. Thank fcuk I was not involved from an ante-post point of view for the race at Xmas because then i'd be really stewing.
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harry, I'm summising..I thought that was clear....I'm not making anything out. I'm willing on this occasion to accept that he's the better chance at the arkle on what we know about the horse and from what we hear....does the small fact that he's a twice festival winner come into it...ermmm...yesss....hey he might not be though...see.
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duffy i don't know...i know what horse i believe to be, as think champagne is a stayer, just my opinion and will be hit with, he won a supreme but for me just ground it out the better...
what i do know though is that champagne fever has been long time favourite for the race and it would be poor pr to now pull him out... felix's ability is to be sacrificed on the back of it however, felix yonger has already achieved enough to be clear favourite in the arkle duffy you will be right in regard which horse goes but you are not right when talking of ability imo (at this stage) especially when champagne is going to have to be a late 160's horse to beat yonger anyway, that isn't to say champagne won't improve as has had only 1 chase start but as we speak i would take yonger all day long over 2 miles anyway am happy to have a wager on who achieves the highest rating over the course of the season duffy? |
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Dangerous game to take anything WPM says (or rather is quoted as having said)as gospel. We will never know the true story but speculation is fun! My guess is that it was always the intention to run FY at Limerick if CF was fit and well to take his chance in the RP. Strong likelihood they will scoop both pots and the 1st prize at Limerick is not to be sniffed at.
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You're not quite getting what I'm on about harry, I don't know either, I'm not stating anything on definite ability one way or tother, I'm simply summising that THEY think that CF is the better chance.
I'd disagree with you that they are sat there saying to one another damn it we can't pull CF away from the arkle now at this late hour (December)...if they were worried about PR then FY would be running against him in a few days if they thought he was better just to find out. I'd also disagree that FY has shown enough already to be CLEAR arkle fav. I don't want a straight bet on who is the better rating at the end of the season, but thanks for the offer. |
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I'd also disagree that FY has shown enough already to be CLEAR arkle fav.
what horses have shown better form iyo duffy so far |
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ff - he was not quoted as saying. It was his column and I am sure he has a ghost writer but I am equally sure the ghost writer would not be the ghost writer for long if he mis quoted Willie in his own column. THats my only issue. He stated very clearly in his column in RP on saturday " the intention is to run both FY and CF. Both have earned the right to run." Pretty clear.
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I think that the sandown race was equally as good as the irish form....I wouldn't have anything between the mullins horses and hinterland and grandouet at the moment....certainly not to have FY CLEAR fav.
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if wullie says its dark outside ,then I would suggest you open the curtains and look for yourself !
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interesting that you have them the same...hinterland is just an average novice in my book and grandouet seems limited these days...taquin doesn't go on good ground so form has it's limitations...each to there own, i still have yonger better than those 2 horses so will have to just disagree at this stage
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I like grandouet most at this stage to be honest, I don't normally like these "hurdlers" going chasing per se, but it's easy to forget he's still only 6 rising 7...despite his mishap on debut I was quite happy with his jumping and in the 2nd race he travelled and jumped all over the field and whilst it could be levelled against him that when it got tough he cracked, he was rallying at the end again...he's classy and I hope that there's still more to come.
Hinterland is going to be largely over-looked primarily because he's had one go at it already, but remember last year he was nicholl's great hope for the arkle but ran like a head case through his races...this year he's a relaxed horse and is showing just what nicholl's thought of him last year IMO. I think 10's and 12's about those two at the moment is pretty good. |
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The problem here is that FY has won 2 2m races beating other horses that had previously won well over 2m and were being touted for the Arkle.CF has won one 2m4f race beating a horse that's an outsider for the RSA. Thats the chase form thus far we have seen from both horses.
Is it any wonder people are saying the best form shown this year out of the 2 as re the Arkle is FY??? The other problem is that it seems connections favour CF,and we have no evidence to reason why(as re 2m chasing),just reading between lines from quotes etc. As for being clear fav for the Arkle without CF .....he would be in my book,but then he aint won a bumper and supreme so therefore is not as popular,even though winning those races does not make him a clear fav for a race over fences the following season,not for me anyway,but ive said that all along anyway. If the horse comes out boxing day and beats DL and Trifolium well then fair enough, but at this stage as far as chasing at 2m is concerned, its all hype,he aint ran in a 2m chase yet. As for going back on what he said the other day,he clearly never intended running both,otherwise both would still be running in the race. So basically he lied. Anyway I shall be watching the race with interest,and as I said if he wins well fair enough,hes earned the right to be classed as a serious Arkle horse,rather than the hype surrounding his flat and hurdles form. But if he don't win well??? What then??? |
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All should be revealed on Thursday budd, assuming they all turn up and run their race. It's not CF's fault that he has only has one race over fences thus far. FY has better form over fences because he has had the opportunity to show it. If CF despatches DL and Trifolium in the manner that the bookmakers expect, then he will go to an unbackable price for the Arkle. The fact that WPM has chosen a grade 1 for him over an extended 2 miles on only his second race over fences says it all for me.
If he fails to deliver, then 'the ba's on the slates' as they say in Scotland and FY will almost certainly be targeted at the Arkle in his stead. |
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well i think the thing that gripes me more than anything is the sacrifice made to a really good horse
because of champagne, yonger has been forced into running in a minor graded race, then has to go to a gaff track over christmas instead of being trained for leopardstown after his win at punchestown...he deserved to run in the arkle as proved by his form but is shipped off to limerick to run in a nothing race anyway i suppose champagne will win in all probability but defy logic who i get the impression will be better going left handed, hopefully will put it up to him...i shall be taking champagne on at the short odds here But if he don't win well??? What then??? i'm sure he will be given every chance to do whatever is best for the horse, like any good horse should be one thing for sure is, he won't be shipped off to a gaff track, to do his racing |
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Some people are, and have been for a bit, sounding really bitter on here now. I do understand why as FY is clearly a very very good horse, however, you knew full well when you took the 12/1+ that the only reason you were getting that price was because in all known likelihood, he wouldn't be running in the arkle. If he was likely to run then IMHO he would/should have been no bigger than about 5/1. You can't have your cake and eat it - you knew what was likely to happen
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Its not the bet im worried/moaning about or whatever,after all it is a nrfb job. Of course I would rather he ran,but its not cos of that the point I am making.
No, for me its all about the horses running in the Arkle that deserve to and therefore giving us the chance of seeing a better race...I thought that was why we all loved the festival,seeing the best horses in the best races. And for me the best 2m horse I have seen this season imo is Felik Yonger,and imo he deserves at this stage to be in the Arkle,not sure how anyone could disagree with that to be honest. |
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one point about champagne fever ,last season for whatever reasons over hurdles he did put up a few seemingly below par runs at short odds ,so at very short odds and with limited experience he could be worth taking on in the irish arkle !
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I don't think that anyone disagrees that on all known form so far FY deserves a shot but what does Mullins or Walsh have to gain from that? Why run two horses in the same race when both could win a different one at the festival? And please let's not get into the issue that they should be going for the opposite races to which they appear to be aimed - on that basis you'd have to say that Ballycasey is worthy of an arkle entry.
CF was rated 12lb superior to FY over hurdles, has won over C&D (give or take) the two times he has been at the festival and therefore has to be given every opportunity to be there number 1 arkle horse |
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Well I would say the owner of FY stands to gain a lot.
I can see why mullins and walsh would keep them apart, course I can, but that don't change MY opinion on FY being in the Arkle or not. Shame they aren't with different trainers. As re opposite races,well that all depends on how CF gets on when he runs over 2m on Thursday against 2 horses that FY beat nicely.If he struggles then the possibility of that happening becomes more likely. |
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he might struggle to beat them but cf only ever does enough,it will win on thursday and will win the arkle !
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Well if he struggles to beat them it will continue to show us that FY has the better 2m chase form.
The debate would carry on. |
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Well quite obviously, Felix Yonger is not as good at 2 miles 4 as he is over 2miles. Over to CF????
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