I've nothing against the horse and think he's one of the top 5 players in this in my opinion. But he should be at least 7/1 not 7/2 in places. Hopefully in the build up to the race like the monday morning I can get a lay in around the price he is now. I need him to win some joke prep race though otherwise people might let him drift after others win their preps.

Hated every bit of the supreme around there, can't jump and needs mccoy to ride him away from every hurdle and the minute mccoy relaxes on him the horse idles too, that's what happened in last years supreme anyhow.

Ballydoyle

What is actually clueless is people taking a literal interpretation of an analogy. The analogy wasn't saying that Hurricane Fly runs like Harchi at Cheltenham it was to say that the people fawning over his performance the other day need to get a grip and it is reminiscent of how people used to wax lyrical over Harchibald's performances leading up to the big day. Somewhat like you did with your comment about age being the only thing which can beat it. He only just beat peddlers's the year he did win it and got hammered last year by a horse which would have found more if The Fly could have got within hailing distance of him.

Feel free to sit round in a big circle holding hands on the day willing your hero on if it makes you feel better.

Or maybe there is a half way house between the two. Perhaps he wasn't as ripe as a peach last year but he wasn't the 7 or 8 lengths down on what he'll need to be this year to win.

Sorry about my tone. It's like a red rag to a bull when I hear the word daft. Probably because I am completely potty. It seems incredibly churlish to say but there was something about the way he came home that disappointed me. Had you stopped the race as he cruised to the front after the second last you could have named your distance. He ran on okay but he didn't put the race to bed like I thought he would. Oscar is a fine horse who for me falls between two stools as he really does need two and a half even at Cheltenham. As I say it is Thousand Stars that bothers me especially as he was pushed wide off the home turn passing Overturn I think.

I thought he won an okay rather than stellar champion and I do agree that he wasn't quite the same horse last year. There may have been more than one explanation for that. His prep can't have helped but it was also I think a bit quicker ground than the year he won it.

I suppose my point is that I just don't think he has shown at Cheltenham what a truly exceptional horse he is and getting older isn't going to make his task any easier.

I think the ground and how the race panned out helped Overturn last year but I don't think there was any fluke about ROR winning. The jockey was even able to sit still about 5 strides off the last knowing all he had to do was to jump it and that he didn't need to throw the horse at it. I also think that had something gone with him off the home turn that the horse would have battled and found more.

In short I couldn't back ROR against The Fly anywhere but on decent ground at Cheltenham but I would back him there.

but imo the only thing that beat it last year was the trainer...gave it a ridiculously bad prep

Trainer wanted to run him a few times before he eventually did but the horse wasn't right - cannot blame him for that.

The question for me is can HF reproduce the same level of form as he did two years ago? Personally think it is unlikely,  even he's 100% come the day, that he can. Will need to wait and see that if his peak performance is still good enough to take this year's renewal.

People knockin the Fly need to get a grip imo. Only age can beat it this year and in a wide-open race it's got a good chance

when AP was interviewed on Darlan i got the feeling he thought Binocular is better, He will probably ride Bino imo.

Eternal you ask why are so many people raving about HF. I suggest you have a look at his form again and then compare it with the form of the opposition. Most of them have beaten very little apart from one another a couple of times. The really good NH horses have form figures made up mainly of 1s and perhaps the odd 2 or 3 thrown in. Before the fighting fifth we were being told cinders and ashes was the new dawn and then after it it was countrywide flame. The good ones keep winning and need very few excuses. Fourteen wins from sixteen races. Fifteen of those sixteen races have been grade 1s. That is the type of form I like. If the Irish Grade 1s are so easily won why dont the English trainers run their horses in them many of which are worth up to 100K. The unfortunate Go Natives next race was to be in the Kempton hurdle rather than at Leopardstown!

he cant win as a 9 yr old, just like horses cant regain cheltenham gold cups, french bred greys cant win the national, 4 yr olds cant win the december gold cup, stats are stats but stats are broken from time to time

I agree that its shocking that more British trainers don't run horses in Ireland, not just in the hurdle races won by HF. Nicholls on the whole seems to be the only one who regularly sends some over when he feels he has the right horse.

To my mind the Irish Champion fits ideally into the schedule yet trainers seem to want more of a public school than a proper race 6 weeks before the big one.

cant agree more firsttimevisor.

Sorry but I disagree with firstimevisor. He used superior speed to beat a load of two and a half and three milers, out of form good horse and rubbish. Peddlers Cross best 2 miles performance was beating Starluck by a length. Neither Oscar Whiskey nor Thousand Stars had shown any great 2 mile form and still haven't. Overturn had run a stinker and finished tailed off 3 weeks previous at Wincanton and Clerk's Choice was close enough up to also devalue the form. He wasn't produced at the last but just after the second last.

The best of recent times? I think not.

Howdi..yes age is the stumbling block. He's 9 and statistically you want a younger horse.

If they enter Istabraq I think age would be the only stumbling block

It means what it says. I'm happy to debate the issue but I'd appreciate it if you read my post and commented on what I actually said instead of inventing straw men arguments. Peddlers Cross wasn't out of form. Overturn was. Oscar Whiskey and Thousand Stars didn't or have not proven to have the basic speed to be top class 2 milers on good ground (they were the stayers. I'm not dismissing them because of a lack of class). Of course if you can give me a list of all these grade 1's won at 2 miles by Peddlers, Oscar and Thousand then I'll obviously have a rethink.

I also didn't suggest that the champion hurdle was the preserve of horses who haven't run beyond 2 miles but champion hurdlers (like all the ones you cited) are 2 milers with some getting the extra half mile under certain circumstances. This is different to two and a half milers trying to drop back and seeking to keep up with top class 2 milers. The race is littered with horses like Oscar, Thousand, Al Eile types who aren't speedy enough on good ground to win a champion but who are classy enough to win over the extra half mile at Aintree.

As for it being the best champion hurdle of recent times you are as entitled to your opinion as the next man. My point is that there is no basis in logic for your assertion. For example, to name one, the champion hurdle of, I think, 2005 won by Hardy Eustace had better animals in stronger depth in my view.

Ruby can think what he likes but in no way does the stayers compare to the champion in prestige and if connections or Nichols shared Ruby's confidence then I suspect that at some point over the last few years they would have put him in something like the Bula to find out if this was at all likely.

To above poster.....you said only age can beat Hurricane in a wide open Champion,,,contradiction in terms isnt it?

CVByrne
05 Jan 13 10:25
Joined:
14 Mar 06
| Topic/replies: 3,461 | Blogger: CVByrne's blog
I've nothing against the horse and think he's one of the top 5 players in this in my opinion. But he should be at least 7/1 not 7/2 in places. Hopefully in the build up to the race like the monday morning I can get a lay in around the price he is now. I need him to win some joke prep race though otherwise people might let him drift after others win their preps GOT YOUR 1ST BIT UP

I'd say replacing Overturn with Darlan and Grandouet makes it a stronger race than last year.

Agree Arkle, i actually don't see AP getting off Binocular to ride him. Only my opinion before i am shot down for the comment

Others would/could also say that ROR Grandouet and Zarkander are ew bets to nothing. Its getting crowded.