When I say your last post, I meant the one at 18.04 btw - too slow at typing

To achieve a high speed figure a certain set of conditions needs to happen, there needs to be plenty of pace from the outset in a race and last years Champion was pretty unique in having a grade 1 winning front runner, Overturn, who was kept company by Celestial Halo and this constant forced pace allowed RoR to take it up and continue home to set a very fast time. It's very rare such conditions happen in a race to let such a high speed figure be reached. As such I can't but ignore them due to the rareity of those conditions. Most horses will never ever get a chance to run in such a race to set such a figure. Unless of course the horse itself is a front runner.

Especially as this years race clearly lacks any pace in it from my viewing. No Overturn or Celestial Halo this year. No front runner in the field at all tbh.

Stop wasting your time MM knocking Fly and waffle on about how great Darlan the wonder horse who has never run in anything but comically slow races his entire career thus far.

Just pointing out you're backing Darlan who's speed figures are utter rubbish. So if speed figures are so important why are you backing Darlan?

He may well be bud, we'll find that out on the day. I'm sure he'll face a better Hurricane Fly this time around as he's had no problems and everything has gone as well as his 2011 winning season so far.

CV if you actually read my earlier post you would have noticed plenty of compliments to Hurricane Fly. Why would I knock a horse that I have followed and enjoyed for a number of years? I am just forming an opinion on the Champion Hurdle a race in which like any other you can't be sentimental in.
I use a number of different ways to form an opinion of horses, speed figures are one of them but they are not essential and by far from the be all and end all. They are however a positive sign of ability and I was merely using them in this instance to argue the opinion that Rock On Ruby was the better horse last season in the Champion Hurdle and it wasn't a fluke.
As for Darlan speed figures are not the reason I backed him. But as you brought it up I will explain. He is a 2nd season hurdler who having only run in a slowly run race on heavy hasn't had the chance to post a big figure. He did however post a higher number than either of H Fly or ROR as a novice though not that it would be any reason for me to back him. I backed him because I felt he was the best 2 mile novice by some way & with likely improvement 20/1 was far too big. I think it's fair to say in less than ideal conditions he has improved. I'm also on Zarkandar & Grandouet at 12s so not sure why you just brought up Darlan?

You're posted a load of daft rubbish tbh. The fact you posted this on here and on antepost forum means you're a spammer, just looking to get a few bites.

Just clicked on your name to see your other posts on betfair forums. You seem a lovely chap.

Look CVByrne. I've given an opinion backed up by my reasoning. If it's wrong then I'll take it on the chin but I haven't in any way been impolite to you or anybody else on this forum despite you calling me daft. You seem to be the one with a bee in your bonnet which I can understand if you are talking through your pocket but that's what is "daft" in my view.

He fell twice at Cheltenham and lost once to Denman the final 2 runs he was past it.

Denmans record at Cheltenham after all reads 2-6 clearly he didn't like the track either.

Kautos record in Gold Cup is more to do with the quality of rival he faced in Denman in 2008. Had he not faced him like he never did at Kempton he'd have won 3 Gold Cups in a row and would you still say he didn't like the track?

Anyway Kauto is retired now. That discussion was back 4 years ago. He p1ssed up in the Gold Cup. Think that's all I'd wanted.

Being a flat bred is definitely a positive for this race I agree and never disputed that. If you actually read what I was talking about it coincided with age. Flat bred horses are bred funnily enough for the flat and peak earlier than NH breds. They are designed to be possibly introduced to racing at the age of 2 and reaching their peaks at 3 or 4 not 9. The fact that the likes of Hurricane Fly have been racing since the age of 2 generally adds to the wear and tear. Now I'm far from saying Hurricane Fly is worn out but like it or not we are likely to have seen his best days.

Istabraq would've won at age 9 had there not been foot and mouth that year.

I was having a look last night and in the last decade there have been something like 160 runners in the champion with something like 22 horses 9 or older. Rooster Booster is the only winner of that age group and he was on a definite upcurve in his form that season.

Has anyone said that HF cannot win because he is a 9yo? No! All that has been suggested is that as a flat bred he is not likely to be as good as he was in 2011, that's all. He may still be good enough and we will find out on the day.

In the same way I don't think anyone has said HF or Kauto didn't like Cheltenham - merely suggested that they were better at other courses or that Cheltenham suited the competition better.

Some people are getting so precious about HF its becoming a little pitiful to read.

Eeternaloptimist 03 Jan 13 18:35 
Just to be clear I'm saying he is great and almost certainly the best since Istabraq and that he is very very good at Cheltenham but not quite as good there as on a flat track which was why I asked the original question.

With respect Eeter, the above comment is quite a bit removed from the opening salvo re: lemmings and cliffs, on the above statement I wonder what we're all arguing about....I agree with you Eeter, he is very very good at cheltenham

Fair enough, ROR will be one of the others I'll be interested in, I personally think that he came out of the international with most credit, where strangely he appeared to have a little bit to prove in showing that his in showing that his win wasn't a fluke!!, In the international he travelled much better than Zark who was always just a little bit at it, ROR blew up in the end but on better ground and a fitter horse he'll gallop through strongly whilst I am confident that zark will get outpaced along the way, not too sure what to make of grandouet but I have a gut feeling, not based on much I know , that he won't get up the hill the strongest of all.

We should remember that a good few of mullins horses were not on their game at all that week, so you can throw that into the equation as well and taking that into consideration makes the flys run more creditworthy.

Who do you fancy to win the CH Eetern?

A lot of the time the Cheltenham factor is overestimated. It's a racecourse with a lot of ups and downs and a steep uphill gradient at the end. Leopardstown, Naas and Navan are 3 courses I would consider similiar. The undulations and the stiff finish are hardly the first time a horse will have encountered such conditions. All it really does is place extra emphasis on stamina. Horses are also facing the strongest opposition they've faced all season. I usually ignore the "not a Cheltenham horse" arguments in the lead up to the Festival anyway. Some horses of course like the place more so than other places but every year, the will he won't get up the hill is done to death.

AS for Hurricane Fly, it's hard to argue with what CVByrne is saying. I wouldn't be getting carried away with his chances of regaining his crown but he's enjoying a much better preparation this season to last. It would be foolish to write him off. I would also agree a combination of age and injuries may be taking their toll on him as well.

Cheltenham isnt his course and never will be....hmm....having been right opposite the winning post when he flew up the hill and won a champion hurdle I would disagree...

Reminiscent of Harchibald? Even more nonsense

Darlan fans....4/1 for a horse who's won f-all,was beaten in a pathetic Supreme Novices and beat a handicapper last time out in a godawful time and represents the xmas hurdle winner who has won once in last 20 years...yeah great bet that...

People knockin the Fly need to get a grip imo. Only age can beat it this year and in a wide-open race it's got a good chance

Comparisons with Harchibald are completely and utterly clueless