Cheltenham Festival
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I was told months ago to back Overturn for the arkle, currentley trading at around 20s on here. Anyone got any thoughts?
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A general thought is it's brave to back any horse before it's jumped a fence in public. He was obviously a very classy hurdler though. He's quite old to start a chasing career but maybe that doesn't matter for a novice (just that his chasing career will be short). He's heavily raced (37 races) so there has to be chance he won't fancy the new discipline. On the other hand I'd imagine connections would be keen as he seems to have reached his limit over hurdles and he doesn't look well handicapped on the flat. It also looks an open year with no real stand out candidate at this stage (at least until Simosig's future is clarified).
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Don't know why but I've just got the feeling that he won't take to fences
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I really dont see why connections of some horses are so quick to send there horses over Fences (unless they are built for them) when they perform so well over hurdles. Ovverturn is a very good horse. Does it matter that he cant win the Grade 1s (unlikely), whats wrong with winning G2/G3's and conditions races? Not every horse is going to be the best. Just baffles me.
Lets hope he fences better than Peddlers. |
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Hope nothing bad happens to him
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He's jumping a few fences not going off to war.
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Oh yeah, no horses die after jumping fences do they Mr E.
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This is why jump racing will be on its knees in a few years.
People scared to see a horse jump. In a few years the national will be reduced to brush hurdles. |
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Lets hope he maybe better than Peddlers over fences imo no fickin chance of winning Arkle!
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As will be running in Jewson lol!
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Completely missing the point Mr E.
Overturn is good doing what he is doing currently. As pointed out by Strontium, he has raced 37 times and is highly likely to run into unexposed chasing types over fences. It's not about being frightful, but about why changing things if they aint broke? Comparing jumps racing to War is actually quite apt, given the injuries and fatalities to horses when jumping, but you didn't mean it that way. |
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I think the thing with Overturn is, everyone can see how honest and gutsy the horse is. You just hope he jumps a fence well, and isn't too brave for his own good to compensate if he doesn't jump well.
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Celestial Halo springs to mind here.
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Yes, there is the consideration that it's unusual for very good hurdlers to become very good chasers.
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Admirable performer with a good Cheltenham record over hurdles. I'd be surprised if he would be good enough over fences in his debut season - he will be a 9 year old come March and as others have pointed out, he already has plenty of miles on the clock.
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Mr E:-
As sint said, why does he need to? He's doing just fine as he is. Does not look a chaser at all. While we're on about it I can't believe NH is thinking of sending Binocular chasing  |
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get me out of here another example. couldnt jump according to jonjo although I suspect that had more to do with jonjo than get me out of here
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Fairly sure that McCain has said in the past that he has already schooled Overturn and that he was "electric" as I seem to remember the quote. Obviously the plan last season was for peddlers to do the business hence why he was kept to hurdling. Personally think it;s a good move, as if he can jump, he will take some pegging back as he bombs off in front and that will be some sight!!!! He is a very genuine horse and can only see him picking up some nice races.
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McCain's assessments of Peddlers were always so accurate.
"Noone beats Peddlers like that" was certainly my favourtite quote of last season and perhaps a few before that  |
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Defo agree a pinch of salt is required! I was one of those who accepted those quotes at face value and paid the price for it!!! But do still think if he CAN actually jump he will be v exciting to watch
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If Simonsig does go down the hurdling route, it really opens up the Arkle market.
I've had a small ew on Trifolium a while ago, but nothing really stands out at the moment. To me, it looks like Oscar Whisky and Overturn are going for this because their trainer's hand is forced and wouldn't look like natural Arkle runners to me. Then behind them, it's basically the entire Supreme novices field from last year; none of which none looked "he's crying out for a fence". With the Jewson now in the frame, this is a definite "tread carefully" race at the moment. |
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Oscar Whisky will not go for the race.
Hopefully they will send Grandouet down this route as he could be an exciting novice. |
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Why on earth would they send Grandouet chasing when his form with Overturn on his last run would have given him every chance of winning the 2012 CH?
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I said hopefully as I would love to see him chasing and he could be excellent as it.
Simonsig will take all the beating in the champion hurdle with a little bit of further progress. |
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I cannot have him on my mind, though he is a lovely sort.
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Never back a flat bred horse over fences,Not for me.
Very rare we see a triumph horse become a top chaser. |
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Sorry my last point was supposed to say very rare we see any triumph horse become a top chaser.
made it sound like overturn ran in the triumph once upon a time |
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Plenty of good chasers have ran in the Triumph, Azertyuiop, Well Chief, Zaynar, Poquelin, Fair Along of the top of my head. It's the first place I look for the following years Arkle winner, mostly French breds though. UK flat breds tend not to do well as chasers, and it would put me off Overturn. Especially given his age, you don't see many 9yo winners of the Arkle.
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Zaynar?poquelin?Fair Along?
PMSL  Come on,You gotta do better than that,All admirable horses,But hardle of much use.Were talking about potential Arkle winners not run of the mill chasers. |
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Fair along went off fav for the arkle and has been an absolute star for about 6 seasons now.
I wont have a bad word said against him! |
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ive nothing but admiration for Fair along,probably the only horse in training that has had at least one go at every distance possible on both the flat and under NH!
But he falls some way short of top class unfortunately |
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He will be running in the Champion Hurdle again come March.
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Overturn isn't bred to be a chaser.
He doesn't look like a chaser. He doesn't jump hurdles like a potential chaser. I can only think of two Flat-bred horses that have won the Arkle in the last 25 years. As already mentioned he's too old to be starting a new career.. I couldn't have him on my mind for the race. |
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Don't know which Overturn you've been watching but it's not the same one as I have.
Overturn isn't a low jumping pinger of a hurdle he measures them carefully which will certainly stand him in good stead when he goes chasing. He's just a good horse who is so versatile he'll just about turn his hand to anything. He obviously thrives on racing and I would think he'll love jumping fences. To say he's too old might apply to most but I doubt if it will to him Didn't look too old when he ran 2nd in the Chester or the CH When he hacks up in his first 3 chases let's talk again  |
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I am completely with Flyingbolt on this one. If he wins the Arkle, I'll give up.
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Given his first 3 chases will be 4 runner races at Bangor or Haydock we'll probably know about as much as we did about Peddlers Cross.
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I am in agreement with most of the negative comments on here regarding age/ flat bred etc, but I can confirm that he has been schooled and jumps well, the idea of going chasing is under serious consideration..I would also not even consider backing something for the Arkle that you have not seen jump a fence with your own eyes....
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He is definitely going Chasin D McCain has already confirmed
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i think overturn is his own worst enemy. he gives his all in every race and the way he runs means he has a hard race every time. yes he keeps coming back for more but theres only so many times a horse can do that and he's been doing it for a while. i think simonsig has got to be the one for the arkle. travels like a dream through his races (like sprinter sacre) looks like he's loving every minute of it (like sprinter sacre)and the drop to 2miles of the arkle means that BG can let him sdride on and unlike the "will sprinter sacre get up the hill" debate of last season simonsig WILL get up the hill. for me he ticks all the boxes and i'll be backing him up until the off.
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Sprinter is not a competent jumper of a fence. I doubt very much he will even run in the Arkle never mind win it.
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