Cheltenham Festival
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The Don Cossack fan club
The Don Cossack fan club
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Replies: 699
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wasn't suggesting anything of the sort as ruby most likely didnt even realise that the other horse tipped up. But pre race ruby joined in in a televised interview where he set the Don Cossack connections for a fall.
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Don Cossack needs to jump better thought his fall summed up the way he hurdles tbh. Maybe it's because he's a big horse but he's unbalanced at them a lot of the time and takes too much time getting away from them. He'll struggle to get near the winner anytime soon though just different class.
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I think Resner you have hit the nail on the head. I imagine chasing may be his game.
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Don Cossack is like Boston Bob without the turn of foot! Unless the ground is a morass come March, he won't even be on the horsebox. Really liked the winner - jumped well and quickened when asked.
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i love the winners pedigree
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His Sire even more so
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How quickly reputations come and go in this game
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Fair play to anyone managing to offload their ante-post bets below twenties after that performance. He doesn't look a Cheltenham horse to me.
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If that was the real Don Cossack then clearly many, including me, have over rated him. His trainer said it wasnt and certainly he didnt run anything like he has done previously. "Beaten passing the stands" suggests that it wasnt the going, the distance or the opposition. Of course, its a route to the poor house, making excuses for beaten horses, but i certainly wont be writing him off as a hurdler until I see him again, which may not be for a while as he is "stiff and sore". He may have been caught by Busty Brown on the runin, but for his extraordinary fall, and that just isnt him. His jumping was poor, but was there a reason for that?
Disappointing for the fan club, but far from the end of the road. |
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Not the end of the road for the horse, but the end of the road for antepost bets on the Neptune I'm afriad.
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He's too big to be long term top class - simple as.
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Surely adds to the doubts of Gordon Elliot's capabilities of training top class horses to perform consistently?He has trained a grand national winner,ebor winner and Carlito Brigant. It was only 2007 since Silver Birch extended his opportunities,but has he ever trained a horse that has consistently performed at graded level??
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^ That was also something I was pondering.
 Although there are plenty of top horses with loads of other stables (Elliot, Hobbs, King, Daly, Pipe, McCain for example) if you really wanted to give a promising young horse the absolute best chance of fulfilling it's potential there's little doubt you'd be best to send it to Nicholls, Henderson or Mullins. |
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Daly????
If you want a top class horse, I would suggest the bank account of Mr Ricci is more important than the trainer. Look how the likes of Howard Johnson and Henry de Bromhead flourished when patronised by big spending owners. |
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Some encouragement for those still paid up members. Firstly, Elliott reports that he's fine, and will appear again late Jan or Feb and that "we can draw a line through his last race". Second, Sizing Gold, who Don thrashed at Navan, won very well yesterday. If he can resume winning ways in his next run, the Neptune could still be on the radar.Dipping in again myself at 40's.
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This horse is part of my garbage ante post book, than was released for £14.99 a few weeks ago at all good book stores, but can now be bought in the 99p bargain bucket. Cyclops, you forget to mention the part where the trainer said that he was beaten by a better horse anyway.
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TBH after the way Jezki won the other day it makes Champagne Fevers first run of the season look so much better - unless the going is really bad I reckon he may be Mullins Neptune horse with Pont Alexandre going for Albert Bartlett.
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Time will tell Graeme83. Good luck with your book. Is it titled "the aftertimer?"
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Book was in a refrence to my bets i keep, and not an actual book. The price deduction i mention was mocking my selections. I don't aftertime.
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That's how I read your post. Cyclops is certainly keeping his eye on you.
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Very good red and white. You put a smirk on this young mans old face.
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Graeme, misread your post, so apologies.
As for your point that Elliott said he wouldnt have beaten Pont Alexandre anyway, I chose to overlook that, not because I don't want to hear what i don't like, but because it would have been churlish in the extreme to say "at his best, he'd have beaten him". Elliott is not one to spout, and I'm happy that he feels Don Cossack did not perform to anything like his best. While no-one knows how good the winner might be, Don's running in relation to Busty Brown was well below what he is capable of. Whether he can produce the goods next time and, indeed, whether his hideous fall after the last might do him lasting damage is a moot point, but I believe a horse should be forgiven one bad run and, if he runs when the trainer indicates he might, redemption is certainly on the cards. Never forget, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king............... |
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"He knew how to say many false things that were like true sayings."
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Cyclops, scruffle up your bet and try and shoot a 3 pointer with it. I backed the horse myself and the money is gone. He said he's an honest guy and he's holding his hands up. THe lesson for the punter is that we shouldn't be too quick to back a horse from a trainer who hasn't had the really good ones before. Nicholls telling you he has a special one is different from Elliot going on about on of his. Don Cossack wouldn't win the neptune if he started today, and the prices for the 3 miler suggests he ain't going there.
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I didnt become a fan of Don Cossack on account of what the trainer said, but because of what I saw. I think Elliott's been very restrained in his comments. Not a case of following hype but believing from his racecourse performances that he's very special, as outlined at the top of the thread. So I won't be giving up on him just yet.
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This years Cheltenham antepost bets are lost - that's a fact.
The horse may yet go on to good things over fences - maybe a Grand National winner in the next 3-5 years? Wonder what price I'd get on that.  |
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unclepuncle
30 Dec 12 17:48 TBH after the way Jezki won the other day it makes Champagne Fevers first run of the season look so much better - unless the going is really bad I reckon he may be Mullins Neptune horse with Pont Alexandre going for Albert Bartlett. Big gamble on Champagne Fever for the Neptune in the last few days - I speak, the rest follow. |
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I know it was a flat race, but Melodic Rendezvous gave him another boost today as well.
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Champagne Fever hasn't exactly done a lot wrong - and maybe was trading at too big a price a week or two ago.
Cheltenham Champion bumper winner on fastish going followed by Punchestown Champion bumper on heavy. Easy win on hurdle debut and then just done for toe by Jezki over 2m. The Neptune really does look ideal for him. Runs tomorrow over 2m4f and it will be interesting to see if he takes on Jezki over 2m2f in the Delloite. |
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Maybe i'm just looking for a glimmer of hope for DC, but could we argue that after todays result Don Cossack's performance wasn't as bad as first appeared.
He would most have likely held off Busty Brown that day, who was beaten a head by Rule The World two races earlier, and we all know what that one went on to do today. One of the biggest issues could now be that DC and RTW are both gigginstown horses. Obviously makes Ponte Alexandre look even more impressive and it will take a good one to beat him in the Albert Bartlett. Any hope at all for Don Cossack? |
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Have no doubt that DC is higher up the Gigginstown pecking order than Rule the World. He now just has to come out and prove it.
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While it looked likely that Ponte Alexandre would go for the AB, that was when the same connections had Champagne Fever for the Neptune. Assuming CF dosen't make the gig after yesterdays disaster (was even worse than Don Coassaks run) then I'd expect them to re-route PA to the Neptune if the ground has some ease in it.
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cyclops
07 Jan 13 15:41 Have no doubt that DC is higher up the Gigginstown pecking order than Rule the World. He now just has to come out and prove it. He would have been at the start of the season but don't see how he can be now. |
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There was a very valid reason for CF yesterday Uncle. Don't know how long it will take him to recover but if all ok there's no way they'll leave him at home. Ricci loves chelt runners and CF has proven course form!! His form has been phenomenal and got a big boost on sat in the Tolworth. Would be different if there were no excuses for yesterday, but there were.
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Uncle, again, you either accept, as the trainer says, that he was not right in his last run, or you don't. Of course, none of us know the answer to that but I believe its far from crazy to forgive a horse one bad run and move on. You couldn't make any excuse for the horse on grounds of course, going, distance or how the race was run, so "he was beaten passing the stands with a circuit to go" either chimes as plausible or not. Of course, I want to believe it, having invested solidly, but the run was so out of kilter with everything he's done so far since joining Elliott that there are very reasonable grounds for accepting the trainer's view. Don Cossack on a par with Busty Brown? I don't think so.
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cyclops - while Don Cossack clearly didn't run his race I just don't have any faith in Elliot getting him to Cheltenham in A1 condition and I would say judging by the betting (or lack of it) on here since his defeat the chances of him even coming to Cheltenham are now exceptionally slim.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong as currently I can't hope to lay off my rather extensive portfolio.  |
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I wouldn't be too dismayed at lack of money on here of late, unclepuncle. Few will be rushing to back him at present but, if Elliott can run him again in the next few weeks, as he said he would, we'll see renewed interest in him, I think.
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DON COSSACK, a leading contender in the ante-post lists for the Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle and the Albert Bartlett Novices' Hurdle, may not line up in either race at the Cheltenham Festival, with trainer Gordon Elliott in no rush with the six-year-old.
Winner of his first two starts over hurdles, Don Cossack was well beaten by Pont Alexandre when odds-on for the Grade 1 Navan Novice Hurdle before falling at the last, although no problem subsequently came to light. Elliott, speaking to the Weekender for an exclusive stable tour, said: "I have run every test on him and nothing has shown, although he did come back in very light which is not like him. I believe it was just one of those days, which most of us, and horses, have. He is much better than that, the form book tells us that." Although Elliott has pencilled in a return to action at the start of next month for Don Cossack, he added: "I initially gave him a two-week break, but he is back hacking steadily and looks fine. He is still a big raw horse, and although we love to have runners at the Cheltenham Festival it is not the be all and end all and it is possible we may not go down that route this year. Chasing will be his game when he could be special." Don Cossack is as short as 10-1 for the Albert Bartlett and 12-1 for the Neptune. Elliott will still hope to have plenty of runners at the Festival, among them Ladbroke winner Cause Of Causes, who is being readied for the Betfair Hurdle at Newbury next month. Elliott added: "I would think he will go to Newbury next for the Betfair Hurdle and then all roads lead to Cheltenham. One thing I have learnt in my short time as a trainer is that at the Cheltenham Festival the one ingredient every horse must have in handicaps is experience and this fellow has plenty. "He also has a great desire to win which all the good ones have. We will enter him in all the big handicaps and see nearer the time which to go for, but if he remains in his current form he will be going there as a very serious player." |
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Told you all that weeks ago, maybe Elliot listens to me - only one that does.
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Rule the World Neptune and Road to Riches to Albert Bartlett for Gigginstown?
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