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Finians Rainbow - Arkle?

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Replies: 688
By:
Howdi
When: 25 Nov 10 14:30
just a word to the wise before any one gets too stuck into arkle betting.

'The new 2.4 mile novice chase' (I think this will trap many an ante post punter this year in the Arkle and especially the RSA)
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Nov 10 14:34
Finian's Rainbow was sent off the 2-5 favourite on his chase debut. He was last seen finishing fifthin the Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival, but demonstrated plenty of aptitude for the larger obstacles with a generally decent round of jumping.

Stan James left Finian's Rainbow unchanged at 14-1 for the Arkle Chase, which appears to be the target, as  winning trainer Nicky Henderson said: "It's almost certain we will stay at two miles, the Arkle is there. I hope he's top class.
Nicky Henderson: possibly top class

 
PICTURE: Getty Images
 

"He was pretty tidy for a very big horse and put in some spectacular jumps."


With only three runners in attendance, tactics looked like playing a key part in the race, and Geraghty took the initiative, setting off at a decent pace, and encouraging the seven-year-old to attack his fences, which he did with gusto, particularly at the water jump.

Noel Fehily asked Sang Bleu to keep close tabs on the leader, with Hell's Bay detached in third.

At the fourth and then again six out Finian's Rainbow was slightly untidy as befitting a novice, but Geraghty never surrendered the lead and it was Fehily who cracked first, beginning to push at his mount rounding the final turn.

The Paul Nicholls-trained runner was unable to put up a challenge down the home straight, weakening at three out, which left Hell's Bay in pursuit.

However despite closing down to within three lengths of Finian's Rainbow, Sam Twiston-Davies was unable to land a blow, and Geraghty extended his lead comfortably at the finish.
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Nov 10 14:36
He got better as the race went on. Plenty of toe and can seemingly do it from the front and will stay.
By:
duffy
When: 25 Nov 10 14:46
i don't think the top stables will be too interested in the 2.4 mile race with their horses, cheltenham winner maybe, but why run the likes of finian's rainbow and royal charm in that when they have a decent chance of winning the arkle itself....easier or not.

i think stables with perhaps less classy types will be attracted to avoid the bigger guns.....the like of golan way will be turning up in this race.
By:
duncan idaho
When: 25 Nov 10 15:45
agree duffy...not much prestige in first year.
By:
bring on chelt!!!
When: 25 Nov 10 18:23
I loved that...he just got better and last 2 fences were superb. Granted not many runners but ran within himself in a very goods time....33/1 get in
By:
bring on chelt!!!
When: 25 Nov 10 18:30
trying not to get carried away but 10's in places
By:
booster
When: 25 Nov 10 18:37
Flat track horse and, although very good, not top class. Spirit River rated 10lbs higher over hurdles and still unexposed whereas Finian's Rainbow showed how good he was over hurdles but may be better chaser. Still think Spirit River will go for the Arkle.
By:
buddeliea
When: 25 Nov 10 18:40
Dont normally get involved till i have seen them jump a fence,but must confess after reading Gerraghtys comments the other day,i did,and after watching that today i am quiet glad i did.
Long way to go and a fair few to play their cards,but that was the best i have seen so far.Jumped well in the main,fiddled one or two,which aint a bad thing,and overall a good start over fences.
By:
Alvarado
When: 25 Nov 10 18:45
very impressive horse  the way he was attacking his fences was brillant to watch hes so powerful .adrain maguire reckons hes the next denman
By:
dananderson
When: 25 Nov 10 18:59
denman? cant have that. this is good but wont be anywhere near top class
By:
flyingbolt
When: 25 Nov 10 19:05
Really Dananders ?

After he's just beaten your big tip for the top out of sight ?Mischief
By:
SatelliteFlight
When: 25 Nov 10 19:27
Thought he was fantastic today, jumped really well in the main and in my opinion is entitled to be up towards the top of the Arkle market, good luck to those on at fancy prices [;)]
By:
Masterminded
When: 25 Nov 10 19:28
Laugh^
Nothing like Denman very different this is a speedy horse. I was very impressed with the attacking style at his fences to say it was his first run. Has lots of potential over fences and imo 2 miles is going to be his optimum. I can't seeing him being outpaced that's for sure.
By:
booster
When: 25 Nov 10 19:42
Aintree 2 1/2 mile novice chase won this year by Mad Max will be his race I think, possibly taking in the race won last year by Riverside Theatre at Kempton over Christmas on the way.
By:
buddeliea
When: 25 Nov 10 20:01
why not the Arkle??
By:
booster
When: 25 Nov 10 20:14
Because I don't think he's as effective there as at flat tracks and the owner has Spirit River, rated 10lbs higher and Coral Cup winner plus other victory at Cheltenham.
By:
dananderson
When: 25 Nov 10 20:48
bolt sang bleu is a complete baby and will be seen to best effect in 2 years time over 3 miles . i havent even seen the race hut i dont wanna see it as i dont take much interest in henderson horses. im very biased towards paul nicholls i admit
By:
buddeliea
When: 25 Nov 10 20:54
Fair comment re flat tracks and its possible you right,but not convinced myself.Jumps like that i think he will be ok and sure to get better with more experience.As for Spirit River,owner said today he is more of a stayer,as winning Coral would suggest.Cannot see him in the Arkle.
By:
booster
When: 25 Nov 10 20:59
Arkle often won by a horse who stays further, as are a lot of the races at the festival due to the very fast pace they're run at. Spirit River won over 2 miles at Cheltenham last December and was travelling very well in the Tote Gold Trophy when he made a mistake 3 out I think. His rating over hurdles (where he was not exposed) makes me think he could have been a top class horse over the smaller obstacles.
By:
tweedledumbtweedletwat
When: 25 Nov 10 21:13
sr will be suited by further than 2m.i expect him to win easily tomoro
By:
booster
When: 25 Nov 10 21:19
Quite a few recent Arkle winners have been suited by further than 2 niles. Tidal Bay, Sizing Europe a couple who spring to mind but Kicking King and War of Attrition were 2 Gold Cup winners who went the Arkle route. I remember Alan King being interviewed after Voy Por Ustedes won the race and saying that he'd won it by staying rather than speed. He also trained another Arkle winner (whose name I forget) who won a World Hurdle.
By:
dananderson
When: 25 Nov 10 21:21
tbh ive seen no evidence that sizing europe is better suited to more than 2 miles
By:
Joist
When: 25 Nov 10 21:30
That'd be My Way De Solzen, Booster. A real shame how his career spiralled into nothingness after his awesome Arkle win, was such a lovely jumper of a fence.
By:
booster
When: 25 Nov 10 21:41
I guess the jury's still out on Sizing Europe but his trainer seems pretty sure he's a stayer. My Way De Solzen is the one, Joist, seemed destined to be a Gold Cup horse but never regained his form. I'd be pretty sure Spirit River is a better horse than Finian's Rainbow but we'll get the answer in March.
By:
aka
When: 26 Nov 10 01:02
Lot to like about his run today. Makes me wonder how good the four who finished in front of him in the Baring Bingh last season might be as they move into open company.

I think Booster might have a point about the horse being better suited to a flat track. Thought he looked a lot better coordinated today than at times last season. Perhaps the flat track helped in that respect, but it could also be that he is filling out his frame more now and just less gangly. You need a well coordinated, well balanced horse to cope well with Cheltenham's undulations. That was one reservation I had about the horse for the Arkle before he ran today, but now I'll need to rethink that.
By:
Alvarado
When: 26 Nov 10 01:15
im not saying he,ll be like a denman 4miler slogger because as u say he is a quick horse but his running style is very similar to denmans.top class horse this out of the horses who have run so far over fences i think hed be the best he should be arkle fav
By:
Masterminded
When: 26 Nov 10 09:18
agreed^
By:
sintonian
When: 26 Nov 10 10:32
Booster, your talking about horse needing futher than 2m to win the Arkle, which is correct, but Finians Rainbow doesn't lack stamina either. He was campaigned in middle distance races last season, so a fast run 2m looks perfectly suitable for him.

I'd agree about the track issue's, but the trainer and jockey have made no mention of that fact (yet) and given he ran at the Festival last season, and seemingly they are happy to aim for the festival again this season, it suggests to me they think Cheltenham racetrack is fine. imo
By:
unclepuncle
When: 26 Nov 10 11:57
The track is the only real doubt at this stage - he's only run once at Cheltenham and ran ok until tiring up the straight. In fact his Ballymore (or whatever it's called these days) run was actually similar to Forpadytheplasterer when he finished 4th and he won the following seaosns Arkle so hopefully lightning can strike twiceHappy
By:
buddeliea
When: 26 Nov 10 12:08
Booster
The owner said he is more of a stayer type when talking about the Arkle,says it all for me,wont be in the Arkle if i am interpreting him correctly.
By:
booster
When: 26 Nov 10 14:44
I take all your points and they all have merit but I'll take the 152 rated improver with festival form over the exposed 142 rated exposed horse on this occasion. Mind you, he'll have to jump better than today, long time until March though.
By:
eric_morris
When: 26 Nov 10 14:50
There is a flaw in your argument re Spirit River, it is horses who just get 2m 4f AWAY from Cheltenham who are often suited to 2 miles at Cheltenham, not those who have won the 2 m 5f Carol Hurdle going away. Spirit River is so obviously a 2m 4f novice chase candidate at Cheltenham based on this where his stamina can be put in to effect at the close as shown in the Carol Cup. The owner has it spot on re his emphasis on stamina.
By:
formboy
When: 26 Nov 10 15:53
Booster calling Finians Rainbow exposed....lol!
By:
booster
When: 26 Nov 10 16:08
Formboy, what do you call "exposed"? I'd say it's a horse who's shown how good he is and that definitely includes Finian's Rainbow who was beaten the twice he ran in Grade 1 hurdles so, as I say, he was exposed as not being top class over hurdles whereas Spirit River ended the season "unexposed" ie. he hadn't had chance to show how good he was. Winning a 3 runner race around Newbury is what Finian's Rainbow is made for but I want to see him do it in a proper race against fit horses which he didn't manage over hurdles.

Eric Morris, Spirit River won't be running in a Grade 2 2 mile 4 furlong novice chase as he's considered to be the best in the yard so he'll head for Grade 1s. He took up the running some way out in the Coral Cup and was running away from them at the end because he's better than a handicapper so had lots more to give.
By:
duffy
When: 26 Nov 10 16:42
not worried at all about finians running well at cheltenham, he ran very well in the neptune and travelled like the best horse in the race through much of the race (better than peddlers) he got outstayed at the end that's all.

i backed him for the arkle, hoping that he'd be able to translate that ability to travel in a 2 mile chase, i was concerned earlier in the season that connections were talking about distances over further than 2 miles, thankfully they seem to have come to their sensesGrin spirit river probably helps with that decision.

he'll be even better when he hasn't got to do his own donkey work and can sit and pounce.
By:
sintonian
When: 26 Nov 10 16:47
Booster, Spirit River has a higher rating because he has done his running via handicaps and taken on lesser horses. FR has contested 2 grade 1's in his last 3 starts, and finished a respectable 3rd and 5th on each occasion. It was not abilty that got him beat,imo, it was a combination of the trip against top class opposition. Back to 2 miles will be much more suitable for him and if you look back at his run at Newbury where he got beaten a length in a grade 1 behind Reve Di Sivola, he looked to have the race in the bag but ultimately got outstayed on the testing ground.


re the Exposed point, he has had 6 runs in the UK, not what i'd call exposed tbh.
By:
R Carver
When: 26 Nov 10 17:05
FWIW, i dont either could in any way be described as being 'exposed' - the very idea that this trainer exposes any of his novices (FR) is misplaced IMO and SR was only given 4 runs (1 when not ready to win, 1 when making an error when running a stormer in the Totesport). Neither are exposed.
By:
eric_morris
When: 26 Nov 10 17:07
booster, Spirit River was running away from them over 2m 5f because he stayed very well and it is around this trip he will show his best form. Finian's impressed me and his more natural speed is good for an Arkle provided he can find the kick 2 out that is the crux with him. The stable has 2 natural candidates for the Arkle (Finian's) and 2m 4f (spirit River). Dont think winning these 2 races would be seen as anything other than a major success for the stable.
By:
booster
When: 26 Nov 10 18:01
I'll have to disagree and for me he was exposed as not top class over hurdles but he could be better over fences.
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