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These 5455 comments are related to the topic:
THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for
THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for
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We are wishing, hoping and praying that this ever so small disincentive works to create a cleaner environment - meanwhile we risk the economy, jobs, families, working Australian's and our way of life with a great big new tax.
Wake up wombleoz - the rest of the nation has and the people's revolt is only just beginning - your gullible enough to swallow this nonsense, yet funnily enough happy to pick apart and dismiss outcome-driven Coalition policy. Bloody ideologues  |
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quick question for you Jez, what type/brand of milk do you buy???
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 This will be good, I'm going to play along. Dairy Farmers Full Cream 1L. |
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Typical
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Your going to judge me on the milk I buy too AFL?
Get a life, champ. |
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What's wrong with HomeBrand?
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Tastes like sh1t and where I shop (Coles) they have milk at $1 a litre, which is great for the consumer but bad (as Coles have admitted) for the farmer.
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Good point.
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interesting Jez, i'm guessing plenty - myself included, jumped to home brand when the price cuts hit - i.e following the price trigger
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I still but milk that is tied to Aussie farmers (at least somewhat)
Homebrand  My theory is this **** from China and Asia is fked ...I know price is cheap ...but I have my doubts |
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Bottom line for mine the Homebrand milk tastes like sh1t.
It's awful IMO. .........I can see the point your at pains to make wombleoz But the "price triggers" aren't making any real difference in NZ, what makes you think it will here? It's a great big new tax. Hasn't anyone noticed the "environment" is on the backseat in this debate |
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This isn't about the environment.
It's about a tax with strong wealth redistribution themes within it. |
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Why is it China won't have a bar of a carbon dioxide tax?
Why is the US states are rescinding any carbon trading? Why is the Federal US Govt is backing away from a carbon price? These are big polluters - we're fkn miniscule. But no no no no.....we're going to lead the way....and they will follow ffs |
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julia is using all this carbon tax nonsense to buy herself "a seat" somewhere for something ... sure has little to do with the environment
when will julia speak to our nation and tell them publicly that the co2 'show' that is going on is "no longer to do with the environment" ... as the IPCC/UN have admitted and PUBLICLY stated this truth and disclosure will serve her better when trying to get extra tax money from honest & handworking taxpayers for some greater plan they have in mind |
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Id like that question on Q and A one day Thebas
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Europe has a price on carbon for years, NZ has a carbon tax, India has a price on some forms of carbon pollution - we are not leading the world, not even close to it and the longer we wait the more likely we will miss out the bigger benefits, i.e. new energy companies choosing to base themselves here
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They got you wombleoz. Hook, line and sinker. |
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europe ffs lol ...
they DO have a carbon tax (well some of them do) ... but their consumption of carbon has INCREASED by over 40% since introducing this ... (just the same as jez has mentioned happened in NZ) their poor citizens (EU & NZ) have been duped into thinking they are 'off the hook now' and are 'doing the right thing' by the globe in regards to co2 ... but this is NOT the case what has happened to europe (and likely will happen to all western 'producing' countries) is that all their manufacturing will just GO ... to china and india ... EU are on their knees fiscally ... so i would never ever be advocating myself using EU economics & performance as a sound direction for australia to follow and of course brazil, russia, north america, and africa WILL continiue to emit ... and while we are thinking we're doing 'good deeds' here though a carbon tax ... we will likely follow the sad economic route of EU ... they tell you it won't have an economic effect on australia if we capitulate to this tax ... well LOOK at europe ... some countries there are actually disappearing we are in a global community ... that is the rhetoric ... then unless EVERYONE joins in the carbon tax game (failed at copenhagen) ... well we are setting our country up for a fiscal fall ... ALL our lead, zinc and aluminium smelters will just DISSAPEAR OFFSHORE to china and india like our 'soft manufacturing & call centre industries' have already done (and along with hundreds of thousands of australian jobs) this has already happened to non resource industries ... don't let them trick you into thinking it won't happen to resource companies julia is trying to save her political skin by doing a deal with the greens over this ... the greens should probably spend more time lobbying "other countries" that aren't just yet planning to 'jump off their own cliff' ... yet julia would rather drive a fiscal death blow against our own honest hardworking taxpaying citizens ... in our LAST bastion and mining/producing areas ... our LAST hope of keeping our country in a good financial state ... because when our resources are gone it's all over for us ... (we'll end up total importers and NOT exporters just like america) and finally if we get tricked like the others and do go down the co2 tax route ... OUR CONSUMPTION will still go up (as is proven elsewhere) so where and at what point if ever ... does the poor environment get addressed it's still a money grab for mine .... i hope i'm wrong |
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you're in luck Thebas, you're wrong
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EU Scheme is still being expanded, as is the EU itself - things going the right direction IMO
http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/ets/index_en.htm The EU Emissions Trading System (EU ETS) is a cornerstone of the European Union's policy to combat climate change and its key tool for reducing industrial greenhouse gas emissions cost-effectively. Being the first and biggest international scheme for the trading of greenhouse gas emission allowances, the EU ETS covers some 11,000 power stations and industrial plants in 30 countries. The EU ETS, a system based on the "cap and trade" principle Heavy industry site Launched in 2005, the EU ETS works on the "cap and trade" principle. This means there is a "cap", or limit, on the total amount of certain greenhouse gases that can be emitted by the factories, power plants and other installations in the system. Within this cap, companies receive emission allowances which they can sell to or buy from one another as needed. The limit on the total number of allowances available ensures that they have a value. At the end of each year each company must surrender enough allowances to cover all its emissions, otherwise heavy fines are imposed. If a company reduces its emissions, it can keep the spare allowances to cover its future needs or else sell them to another company that is short of allowances. The flexibility that trading brings ensures that emissions are cut where it costs least to do so. The number of allowances is reduced over time so that total emissions fall. In 2020 emissions will be 21% lower than in 2005. Growing bigger and stronger The ETS now operates in 30 countries (the 27 EU Member States plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway). It covers CO2 emissions from installations such as power stations, combustion plants, oil refineries and iron and steel works, as well as factories making cement, glass, lime, bricks, ceramics, pulp, paper and board. Nitrous oxide emissions from certain processes are also covered. Between them, the installations currently in the scheme account for almost half of the EU's CO2 emissions and 40% of its total greenhouse gas emissions. Airlines will join the scheme in 2012. The EU ETS will be further expanded to the petrochemicals, ammonia and aluminium industries and to additional gases in 2013, when the third trading period will start. At the same time a series of important changes to the way the EU ETS works will take effect in order to strengthen the system. Making a difference The EU ETS has put a price on carbon emissions and shown that it is possible to trade in greenhouse gas emissions. Emissions from installations in the scheme are falling as intended. The changes to be introduced in 2013, notably a progressive move towards auctioning of allowances, will further enhance its effectiveness. The success of the EU ETS has inspired other countries and regions to launch cap and trade schemes of their own. The EU hopes to link up the ETS with compatible systems around the world to form the backbone of a global carbon market. |
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lol womble ... that post don't anything for my peace of mind ... but you knew it wouldn't lol [;)]
it's the "pea under a shell" trick ... (maybe that's where julia learned it from )when someone talks about 'trading' or 'auctioning' emissions between nations the trick is finally exposed ... you see no-one is stopping emissions ... they are just moving them around ... for a price with certain EU countries on their knees .. seems a smarter for them to go .. as a group and even though we aren't in a strict group ... it seems a better way for australia to go ... considering our mining & resource base ... at least we don't lose the jobs & businesses and put people's homes & future into peril ... has julia thought about going down the trading path ? |
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Emissions from installations in the scheme are falling as intended.
it is working Thebas - it's doing what was intended, how can that be a bad thing??? |
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wombleoz is a desperate comrade who will say and source anything that somehow remotely relates to his argument.
The politics will take care of Julia Gillard soon enough. Watch this space  |
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"emissions" haven't fallen womble ... and data does show "consumption" is actually up over there ... about 40% ...
emissions and consumption are different actions they're just moving the emissions around ... a lot of EU "manufacturing" has gone to India and china the airline emissions will make a big difference ... do they run them on LPG |
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roflmfao
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look at the quote again Thebas
Emissions from installations in the scheme are falling as intended i.e. it's working for emissions covered by the scheme airlines are a big source of emissions with airlines working hard to find alternative fuels at present not that's all a good thing, bio fuels have flow on effects to food supplies which is a worry |
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fair enough but ...
if you are trading emissions ... someone else is emitting what you sell to them ... there in NO NET LOSS in emissions that's why they are traded someone somewhere else on the planet is using what you sell or trade to them net improvement zero but if net improvement zero is the final consequence of all this (and therefore better than exponential growth in output) then ... australia might be better off under that arrangement than a nonsense co2 tax is this something julia has considered ?? |
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ideally it will be a global market with everyone trading
exactly what Labor and Liberals had agreed to before the Liberals got cold feet and Abbott took over - it's also what Labor still wants - i.e an ETS - the carbon tax is just an interim step on the way there note, i'd rather a tax then a trading scheme |
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trading might halt the expansion of emissions ... if everyone agrees to the limits
taxation won't stop a thing imo ... rich dont care ... poor are compensated ... companies are compensated ... nothing changes that i can see you found an article on the ETS having a positive do you have a similar article on the TAX having a positive ... anywhere it has been introduced ? |
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of course you'd rather a tax...of course
One word comes to mind: ideology. You hark back to 2009 continually......like as its relevent. This carbon dioxide tax is one of many issues slowly strangling the life out of Gillard Labor. The general public aren't listening to you - they're not even listening to Labor or Julia Gillard - and looking at polling from both parties and the various polling companies - looks like their mind is set.Goodluck in your crusade, cause you'll need it |
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http://www.costarica-discover-it.com/life-in-costa-rica.html
How did Costa Rica reach the top of the rankings? Many reasons. The country is committed to (not just talking about) sustainable development. While the Western world, China and India are relying upon nonrenewable, nonsustainable resources (think oil) which are exhausting resources and contributing to serious global pollution and global warming, an astounding 99% of Costa Rica's energy is completely renewable and sustainable. Indeed, while the States (and other developed countries) dither about how to address power needs, find more and more resources to use up, and try to meet the challenges of global warming, tiny Costa Rica has taken action. Using a form of carbon tax, it has embarked on an ambitious reforestation effort---and there are 20% more forested areas now than just 20 years ago. Despite the prospects of large oil deposits off its shores, it refuses to allow oil drilling. And, it is the first---and to date the only country---to commit to being completely carbon neutral by 2021 (and it's well along the way to accomplish that goal). Despite the fact that Costa Rica's per capita income is only about $11,000, it has demonstrated that wealth does not equate with happiness or satisfaction in life. Other countries should be so intelligent. |
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Oh dear wombleoz
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it wasn't easy Jez
but hey it's all just starting out and Costa Rica should be congratulated for their efforts IMO |
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cheers womble
'do you know the way to san jose' lol i had little knowledge of this country it does have its problems economically etc but i won't raise those in respect to this thread ... as they are a nation that appears to be 'having a go' ... bordering nicaragua must have brought issues ... and they do have an ongoing disagreement with that country over the san juan river for a hugely interesting read on a little known country i would well recommend having a look at this link ... a terrific read which i really enjoyed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica |
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Introduce population expansion into the mix ...you know Kev's big Australia...exponential raises emmissons and a tax base
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we need more people
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the chinese government have identified approximately 10 million people who indicate they would like to migrate to australia
does that consitute expansion lol |
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Womble : The question is can our environment and ecosystems handle more people?
And Im only counting reasonable habitat areas ...not the 80% fkn desert in the middle of Australia |
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wombleoz's theories get scarier by the minute.
Clearly a big Australia supporter with no idea of what that entails. Dick Smith has some wise words on encouraging "more people" in this country. Another thing that scares me, is people like wombleoz refuse to look broadly, for example, at the serious multicultural mistakes made by the UK - they're paying the price. I don't know wombleoz's circumstances, but I'd say he'd be sheltered from a lot of the consequences, as he sips lattes with the other elite socialists on Toorak Road |
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people live in deserts all over the world, why can't they live in them here???
with the right planning we can support 50 million IMO |