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Champions League Tipster Comp Stage 1, 1st Round
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By:
pauli When: 21 Sep 13 18:11
That certainly is an impressive profit for the week so far ud.  Like yourself I was thinking that people would be quite conservative with their selections but that hasn't happened.  The points system you're using mitigates against odds-on chances in that you could end up with 3 odds-on winners and still get 0 points.  I've really enjoyed the competition so far and thanks for all your efforts keeping track of things.
By:
madhatters When: 21 Sep 13 21:23
The way the cookie crumbled UD
By:
undecided When: 21 Sep 13 22:09
Non-runners:

If a player does not select or picks a duplicate or picks a non-runner (non-runners/duplicates evident before the Saturday cut-off can be replaced) then they will be assigned a selection - Last race fav. (If jt. favs then lowest number on the card). If both players in a match end up with non-runners then it will be 1pt each.
If a player just doesn't turn up for at least one of the three group matches then they are out irrespective of pts gained through assigned LRFs.


Lowest number on the card of 9.20 Wolves jt favs was Syrenka, 10, to the winner's 12.
By:
undecided When: 21 Sep 13 22:31
A fantastic first week, +13.39 ignoring the last race favs, very well done Happy

There will be a new thread for the 2nd week, which begins Monday, good luck everyone.

Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.25 3 02.25 shanelee1966 Battalion 4.0 Yar W 9/4 v 9/4 L 5.45 Lis Shamar dogdayafternoon -01.00 0 -01.00 0
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 s.kenbo Lyric Ballad 5.35 San L 8/1 v 11/4 L 9.20 Wol LRF - Syrenka sonofshinner -01.00 1 -01.00 1
shanelee1966 v s.kenbo
dogdayafternoon v sonofshinner
shanelee1966 v sonofshinner
dogdayafternoon v s.kenbo


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 la mallatiere Goodwood Mirage 2.30 New L 7/2 v 3/2 W 2.30 New Wedding Ring adamanty 01.50 3 01.50 3
3 01.88 3 01.88 razmos Tawhid 4.50 New W 15/8 v 11/4 L 9.20 Wol LRF - Syrenka Dan Chipowski -01.00 0 -01.00 0
la mallatiere v razmos
adamanty v Dan Chipowski
la mallatiere v Dan Chipowski
adamanty v razmos


Group 3
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 DeSSieReborn Bounty Girl 3.40 Mus L 9/2 v 1/1 L 5.15 Thi White Nile raspberrybottom -01.00 1 -01.00 1
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 dunter1 Jack Dexter 3.50 Ayr L 8/1 v 11/4 L 5.30 Pon No Dominion pauli -01.00 1 -01.00 1
DeSSieReborn v dunter1
raspberrybottom v pauli
DeSSieReborn v pauli
raspberrybottom v dunter1


Group 4
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 bettysboy Fisher Lane 3.50 Bri L 8/1 v 11/8 W 3.30 Yar Gravitational deadbrain59 01.38 3 01.38 3
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 Ming_the_Merciless Kommander Kirkup 2.10 Ayr L 5/4 v 11/4 L 9.20 Wol LRF - Syrenka pumphol. -01.00 1 -01.00 1
bettysboy v Ming_the_Merciless
deadbrain59 v pumphol.
bettysboy v pumphol.
deadbrain59 v Ming_the_Merciless


Group 5
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 3 02.50 the dealer Kyllachy Rise 3.50 Che W 5/2 v 5/2 L 4.10 Mus Seattle Drive buffythebookieslayer -01.00 0 -01.00 0
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 AyersRock Amadaffair 5.40 Wol L 11/2 v 9/2 W 5.20 Yar Rocksilla themuppet 04.50 3 04.50 3
the dealer v AyersRock
buffythebookieslayer v themuppet
the dealer v themuppet
buffythebookieslayer v AyersRock


Group 6
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 Stevie Gerrard Relation Alexander 3.30 Wol L 3/2 v 5/4 W 4.15 New Lady Lara SkyAtlantic 01.25 3 01.25 3
2 05.00 2 05.00 petemac Hurryupharriet 2.50 Ayr W 5/1 v 5/1 W 4.25 Ayr Levitate CASanMartin 05.00 2 05.00 2
Stevie Gerrard v petemac
SkyAtlantic v CASanMartin
Stevie Gerrard v CASanMartin
SkyAtlantic v petemac


Group 7
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 Cloughie1 Killyglass 5.05 Str L 2/7 v 3/1 L 5.10 Mus Grey Blue zipper -01.00 1 -01.00 1
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 FCH Kassiano 1.50 New L 10/11 v 7/2 L 2.20 New Shamshon sixtwosix -01.00 1 -01.00 1
Cloughie1 v FCH
zipper v sixtwosix
Cloughie1 v sixtwosix
zipper v FCH


Group 8
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 Ardross66 Threave 5.20 Bri L 3/1 v 15/8 L 6.10 Kem Tatting undecided -01.00 1 -01.00 1
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 hong kong fooey Misplaced Fortune 4.0 Pon L 4/1 v 1/1 L 3.55 San Wentworth uptheboro -01.00 1 -01.00 1
Ardross66 v hong kong fooey
undecided v uptheboro
Ardross66 v uptheboro
undecided v hong kong fooey


Group 9
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 3 02.50 feastforfamine Extremity 1.20 New W 5/2 v 10/11 L 1.50 New Kassiano SilverBuck1 -01.00 0 -01.00 0
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 alleged22 Tickled Pink 3.30 New L 4/1 v 10/11 L 1.50 New Kassiano stewpot -01.00 1 -01.00 1
feastforfamine v alleged22
SilverBuck1 v stewpot
feastforfamine v stewpot
SilverBuck1 v alleged22


Group 10
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 GEORGE.B Silk Sari 5.25 New L 12/1 v 15/8 W 4.50 New Tawhid china castle 01.88 3 01.88 3
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 Moose Shamshon 2.20 New L 7/2 v 7/4 L 5.35 Str Julie Prince Aquarius -01.00 1 -01.00 1
GEORGE.B v Moose
china castle v Aquarius
GEORGE.B v Aquarius
china castle v Moose


Group 11
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 duffy Mutanaweb 4.30 Yar L 11/4 v 6/5 L 2.40 Mus Black Treacle Kentish Man -01.00 1 -01.00 1
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 DFCIRONMAN Banreenahreenkah 5.50 Che L 5/1 v 9/4 L 4.50 Che Astra Hall pedro39 -01.00 1 -01.00 1
duffy v DFCIRONMAN
Kentish Man v pedro39
duffy v pedro39
Kentish Man v DFCIRONMAN


Group 12
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.88 3 01.88 salmon spray Vanity Rules 8.40 Wol W 15/8 v 7/2 L 2.20 New Shamshon Tingle Creek -01.00 0 -01.00 0
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 DubaiPrince Kingdom's Call 8.20 Wol L 8/15 v 11/8 L 3.35 Bev Omnipresent k sera sera -01.00 1 -01.00 1
salmon spray v DubaiPrince
Tingle Creek v k sera sera
salmon spray v k sera sera
Tingle Creek v DubaiPrince


Group 13
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 twm. Breccbennach 4.15 New L 8/1 v 15/8 W 4.50 New Tawhid Ricky Santini 01.88 3 01.88 3
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 shearer2therestcue Ioannou 8.10 Wol L 9/4 v 15/8 W 4.50 New Tawhid lagmorian 01.88 3 01.88 3
twm. v shearer2therestcue
Ricky Santini v lagmorian
twm. v lagmorian
Ricky Santini v shearer2therestcue


Group 14
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 dukeofpuke Duke Of Firenze 3.50 Ayr L 25/1 v 15/2 W 2.10 Thi See The Sun hi 5's 07.50 3 07.50 3
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 differentdrum Remember You 3.15 Ayr L 3/1 v 10/11 W 4.20 Yar Montefeltro madhatters 00.91 2 00.91 2
dukeofpuke v differentdrum
hi 5's v madhatters
dukeofpuke v madhatters
hi 5's v differentdrum


Group 15
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 MALTWHIX Be My Rock 5.20 Che L 1/1 v 8/11 W 2.10 New Volume Lampus 00.73 2 00.73 2
3 02.50 3 02.50 Andrew In Sweden Fulminata 3.35 Lis W 5/2 v 3/2 W 5.05 San Empress Adelaide john.t 01.50 1 01.50 1
MALTWHIX v Andrew In Sweden
Lampus v john.t
MALTWHIX v john.t
Lampus v Andrew In Sweden


Group 16
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
1 -01.00 1 -01.00 Mikael D'Haguenet LRF - Syrenka 9.20 Wol L 11/4 v 9/4 L 4.35 Str Pateese angeleyz -01.00 1 -01.00 1
0 -01.00 0 -01.00 Sing when ur winning Novellen Lad 4.50 New L 13/2 v 5/1 W 5.50 Che Bold Duke unluckyStu 05.00 3 05.00 3
Mikael D'Haguenet v Sing when ur winning
angeleyz v unluckyStu
Mikael D'Haguenet v unluckyStu
angeleyz v Sing when ur winning
By:
salmon spray When: 21 Sep 13 23:05
I'm glad LRF lost tbh.
Think you will have to stick to what you said for the first Group stage ud but perhaps a change for the 2nd stage ?
By:
GEORGE.B When: 22 Sep 13 00:24
Don't really understand the concept behind being awarded with a point for picking a loser. In Group 10 3 of us picked losers but 2 of us were 'rewarded' with a point and one wasn't!

That's matchplay?

So in theory someone could pick 3 losers and end up with 3 points Crazy Imo I would be strongly aggrieved if that point awarded for picking a loser cost me a place in the next round eg I won a round but was eliminated because someone had 4 points to my 3.

That said, those are the rules I've agreed to, so I'm happy to abide by them, but there's no logic to being 'rewarded' for picking a loser as far as I can see.
By:
petemac When: 22 Sep 13 00:52
Like any new competition rules are not going to show up ideal but we have all entered this one on existing rules so lets wait until the competition is over before we criticise and I am sure Undecided above any of us will realise what improvements can be made if this was ever to be repeated.
At the end of the day whether the rules are right or wrong it is the same level playing field for all.
Applause for Undecided and nothing else please till the competition ends.Plain
By:
GEORGE.B When: 22 Sep 13 01:18
petemac, don't be such a pusssy! I'm sure undecided won't mind explaining that's it matchplay and as a match ended in a 'draw', each player was awarded with a point. I'm merely pointing out what I see as a flaw in that I don't see why picking a loser should be rewarded with a point in one context but nothing in another, especially as it could determine qualification to the next round.

That said, I echo your sentiment in applauding undecided for undertaking the running of yet another comp!
By:
salmon spray When: 22 Sep 13 09:41
I think ud is trying to do something different from the Nap Tables. In football you get a pt if you play an awful 0-0 draw and nothing if you play brilliantly and lose 5-4. It's MATCHPLAY. If your opponent doesn't beat you you get a pt. Seems simple enough to me.
And please don't call my friend petemac a **** GEORGE      Devil
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 22 Sep 13 09:44
I see Boro blew it pete Cry late own goal from Mr Woodenhead.

Hope you all had a great day out, plenty of goals too.
By:
GEORGE.B When: 22 Sep 13 10:15
Not sure the football analogy works because in racing if you pick a LOSER then you have LOST and should get nothing imo. Seems simple enough to me Devil

But if you want to use the football analogy, then the rules contradict themselves because a loser of a match in this comp gets a point if he / she picks a winner over evens, but your team who have scored 4 but lost 5-4 would get nothing in football. Ya follow? Mischief
By:
salmon spray When: 22 Sep 13 11:00
Yes. I wouldn't necessarily have gone for the bonus point because as you say it does slightly mess up the Champions league analogy,but there was a concensus in favour of that after the pilot,and I have to admit I now agree with it. I am old enough to remember when you only got 2pts for a win in football and I didn't like it when they brought in 3 pts. But I now think it works OK. So there is room for experiment,but some suggestions after the pilot would have made it too close to the Naps Tables. The tactics of this are very interesting imo and it hasn't turned out that people just go for odds-on shots ( even I didn't ). Just worked out how you managed to call petemac a pusssy. Why does a supposedly UK company ( well European ) have to outsource moderating the forum to Americans who don't understand the difference in coloquil use between what are now different dialects ?
By:
salmon spray When: 22 Sep 13 11:02
*colloquial ffs.
By:
razmos When: 22 Sep 13 11:18
isn't spellchecker a wonderful tool to have Laugh
By:
GEORGE.B When: 22 Sep 13 11:21
Apparently, Are You Being Served is/was quite popular in the USA. I blame Mrs Slocombe!
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 22 Sep 13 11:31
And her **** George Laugh
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 22 Sep 13 11:32
p u s s y
By:
the dealer When: 22 Sep 13 11:58
it's a bit of fun at the end of the day. beats me why anyone would question the rules AFTER the competition has started. then again its the Betfair Forum, where black and white are argued over on a daily basis.
By:
salmon spray When: 22 Sep 13 12:11
I think ud tends to be very democratic.
He is himself questioning the LRF rule and he always welcomes suggestions ( polite ones ) in my experience.
Having said that I agree that we all knew what the rules were before we entered. Or at least those of us who bothered to read them did        Grin
By:
the dealer When: 22 Sep 13 12:31
i agree SS, anyone who runs comps like this as he does must have the thickest of skin and gets the greatest respect from me, he has every right to question himself as its his comp and he has made the rules, just find it a bid sad that others are after a round has gone by.
By:
GEORGE.B When: 22 Sep 13 12:32
I'm not going to go on about it cos as the dealer says "it a bit of fun"!

But picking winners should be rewarded, picking losers shouldn't. It's not a trivial point as it could have implications as to who qualifies, and being 'rewarded' with a point for having picked a loser earlier in the comp could prove crucial to getting through. That's a flaw imo.

If neither player finds a winner than they both fail to score imo. The Group / matchplay can still work.

Being given a bonus point for finding a winner above evens despite losing a match is good imo because again finding a winner is being rewarded.

Being given a bonus point for finding the biggest winner is good - it encourages winner-finding at a decent price.

But being given a point for picking a loser? It's not a lay comp is it!?

That is all Devil
By:
the dealer When: 22 Sep 13 12:37
George i'll give you one thing, some might call it stubborn others might say you fight your corner but when you believe something is wrong you dont let it lie when questioned.

my point is the timing of your post.

at the end of the day though imo i doubt that the majority taking part dont really care and are happy to play along, whatever the rules might be.
By:
the dealer When: 22 Sep 13 12:37
i may of course be wrong
By:
GEORGE.B When: 22 Sep 13 13:39
dealer, we're still at a very early stage and I've pointed out what I believe to be a flaw as soon as I've realised its implications for qualification.

For example, someone could have 2 winners at 7-2 and 3-1 and score 4 points.

Yet could be knocked out by someone who scores 5 points through winning a round with a 5-4 winner and picking 2 losers.

The better player has not gone through because someone has been 'rewarded' with 2 points for picking 2 losers along the way - where's the logic in that?!

I go back to my original point, only winners should be given points, not losers. If both players pick a loser, they don't lose any points (as would happen in a naps league), but they don't gain either.
By:
DeSSieReborn When: 22 Sep 13 15:46
At the end of the day, the rules are there, players will suffer or gain throughout the comp. You'll be one of many by the end George Wink
By:
madhatters When: 22 Sep 13 17:02
George

Your points were brought up before the comp started when in pilot mode
(See thread)

It was decided to run it on a matchplay situ but with group qualification
A little twist

The rules were there for anyone to interpret before entering
& gain possibly
By:
zipper When: 22 Sep 13 17:57
Slow down lads Love
the rules are the rules 
but take my group ( 7)  we all picked a loser so its one point each .. so  even stevens
aint been through all the groups   but plenty went through   without picking a winner
this is were its wrong  IMO  the kid who played me   after my 3/1 shot lost he picked a 2/7 on hot pot
ok it went wrong  (dead )  but if it had have won  he would head  group 7 with a 2/7 on fav
the rules are not going  as they stand to produce a Champ
By:
undecided When: 22 Sep 13 19:30
Sorry, not had time today to take all this in but I do always welcome feedback, please don't feel I'll take it as negative criticism, I'm not as sensitive as I used to be Cool
Just briefly, I wanted to mimic a football style points system, but of-course HR tipping isn't football and the two don't mix seamlessly. I just wanted something original, AvB, if you want who can pick the best winners then there's the naps league amongst others.
I do take on board Georges suggestion that it might be better nil point for a no-score draw, we'll see maybe for next time.

cheers
By:
the dealer When: 22 Sep 13 19:31
but thats the point Zipper, the aim is to tactically beat your opponnent every week, not score the highest price winning nap of the competition. you played early and lost, had it won you put him under pressure to find a bigger price selection. its up to each player how he plays. he could have played an odds on shot early and asked you to find one better.
the winner at the end of the competition may well not be the one who has found the most or biggest price winners but thats the point of a football points style competition.
By:
DeSSieReborn When: 23 Sep 13 11:57
If two players pick a loser then neither has lost so its the equivalent of a draw, Forget the other matches, and their outcomes, a drawn maych is a point each. Better to find winners and avoid it though Wink
By:
GEORGE.B When: 23 Sep 13 12:30
As above Dessie, the 5-4 scoreline example, if you're strictly applying the rules of the 'beautiful game', then in that case people who pick a winner but lose a match should receive nothing.

It's not football though, it's racing and when you pick a loser (unless laying), you win nothing, and when you pick a winner you usually win something.

The bottom line is picking losers should not be to someone's advantage when it comes to progressing to the next round. Awarding a point when both players pick a loser means picking a loser does become potentially advantageous.

The simple solution when both players in a match pick a loser is to award no points. It still differs from the naps league where both players would LOSE a point for picking a loser.
By:
differentdrum When: 23 Sep 13 13:04
Apologies U/D but I will be withdrawing from the competition. I had a post pulled on the forum the other day and whoever this forum moderator is they haven't given me any explanation (in my opinion there is is a lot worse that is frequently accepted). One or two people said this was the forerunner to a ban but I don't intend to stick around to find out.

Have enjoyed taking part in your competitions (and Rickis). Best of luck with this one.
By:
Lampus When: 23 Sep 13 13:15
Sad
By:
GEORGE.B When: 23 Sep 13 14:14
differentdrum, I think you're being a bit hasty! If you post certain names (like I did the other night when I typed 'w i l l o'), the thread automatically go to the mods, it's nothing personal nor do I think a forerunner to a ban (well I'm still here anyway - for now!).

If it's nothing that's going to cause outrage(!) try amending the spelling of the word / name you think is the 'culprit'.
By:
duffy When: 23 Sep 13 14:50
Any advice as to how I can fit everything on my screen, even if I wanted to post today on the new thread I couldn't because the reply is off the end of the screen along with most postsSad
By:
zipper When: 23 Sep 13 15:17
George B  same here  think were on about the same guy . i merely pointed  out  he does not pick many winner despit his indepth  knowleged

and they pulled the thread
By:
duffy When: 23 Sep 13 15:18
OK, sorted it now, pressed ctrl space - sorted it, made everything smaller and all fitted on now.Happy
By:
zipper When: 23 Sep 13 15:58
group 7
v sixtwosix  4.00 Ayr  New Fforest
By:
undecided When: 23 Sep 13 16:11
zipper, wrong thread, wrong track, but well done on your winner, top notch!

We're on Round 2 thread this week, I'll copy it over.
By:
zipper When: 23 Sep 13 16:19
undecided  good man ..
wrong thread wrong track  just checked my balance to see if i really did back the horse
looks ok
and to boot i put it up in div 3 and called it New Florest ..hey its one of them day
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