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Your Competitions
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Have briefly mentioned this on premiership thread but how about freshening up the competition in every league from the beginning of the new year ??
As has been mentioned previously the premier league especially just seems to be about survival rather than trying to win the thing -just witness yesterdays selection process where very few actually tried to win it on the last day despite myself being vulnerable at the top with a meagre total to defend -surely thats not what the comps were originally designed for .
Anyway things /events always evolve and i personally think its time to freshen the leagues up a bit because in my eyes the process of picking the shortest price horse every day as a nap is rather pointless .However i realise the odds on punters will be up in arms if they are not allowed to pick their "nap" every day so why not have a compromise of sorts -let the odds on punters continue to pick their selections and settle accordingly -but why not reward the ones who pick something at evens or better by including their stake in the return -eg a 1/2 winner returns 50p whereas a 2/1 winner creates a return of £3 .I personally think this would shake the whole of the leagues up and instill a bit of fresh blood into the comps creating a bit more excitement than the current situation allows whereby especially in the Premiership from a very early stage most people at the bottom end of the league almost without exception pick the same shortest priced horse3 running as their nap -is that really what the spirit of the competition is all about ??.I also appreciate the fact that at the other end of the scale if you start awarding "bonus points" as it were to big priced winners then you could kill off the competition at the top end of the league very quickly.
I think my proposal is a simple solution to a long standing problem within the leagues as it would add a little more skill and risk level to things and help spice up the competition -just my thoughts though so feel free to shoot me down in flames but it would be interesting to see how things panned out if it were put to the vote in the various leagues as im sure im not alone in being frustrated at the current state of affairs -come on guys picking 1to6 winners as naps is easy and defeats the object if you ask me
As has been mentioned previously the premier league especially just seems to be about survival rather than trying to win the thing -just witness yesterdays selection process where very few actually tried to win it on the last day despite myself being vulnerable at the top with a meagre total to defend -surely thats not what the comps were originally designed for .
Anyway things /events always evolve and i personally think its time to freshen the leagues up a bit because in my eyes the process of picking the shortest price horse every day as a nap is rather pointless .However i realise the odds on punters will be up in arms if they are not allowed to pick their "nap" every day so why not have a compromise of sorts -let the odds on punters continue to pick their selections and settle accordingly -but why not reward the ones who pick something at evens or better by including their stake in the return -eg a 1/2 winner returns 50p whereas a 2/1 winner creates a return of £3 .I personally think this would shake the whole of the leagues up and instill a bit of fresh blood into the comps creating a bit more excitement than the current situation allows whereby especially in the Premiership from a very early stage most people at the bottom end of the league almost without exception pick the same shortest priced horse3 running as their nap -is that really what the spirit of the competition is all about ??.I also appreciate the fact that at the other end of the scale if you start awarding "bonus points" as it were to big priced winners then you could kill off the competition at the top end of the league very quickly.
I think my proposal is a simple solution to a long standing problem within the leagues as it would add a little more skill and risk level to things and help spice up the competition -just my thoughts though so feel free to shoot me down in flames but it would be interesting to see how things panned out if it were put to the vote in the various leagues as im sure im not alone in being frustrated at the current state of affairs -come on guys picking 1to6 winners as naps is easy and defeats the object if you ask me
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Here Here
...disgracefully scenes in the Premier in particular. |
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Is this a fishing thread
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Nope...anyone who selected Vasco Du Ronceray should be expelled from their division.
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Dubai/all - very interesting point regarding the minor change in settling. It`s one i would personally agree with, obviously we would need to canvass opinion and put it to the vote. As far as short odds on goes in the premier it can be a little frustrating inso much as you mentioned, you go into the last day or so and not many who are safe decide to go for it. That`s their choice and they will never will the premier division with those tactics but safety plays a very important part as i soon realised when i started settling.
Over to everyone else, let`s see if there is an appetite for change. Oh, one more thing, the settler should be allowed to compete in the division they run |
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im not suggesting that people cannot pick odds on shots if that is their want -far from it -but without killing the comps dead at either end of the table including the stake in any winner at evens and above returns would maybe deter some of the negativity that goes on especially in the Premiership .Surely the point of entering any competition is to try and win it is it not ?
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After many years of settling Division 1 I have the same opinion regarding short priced selections and when I was participating in the daily naps comp I would feel extremely guilty if on the rare occasion I selected anything under 6/4. I do appreciate that consistently finding odds on winners is an art, but on the whole is not likely to see more than 5pt profit which would not win a league.
I was actually thinking of retiring from my settling duties at the end of this year, so any changes regarding scoring are open to debate imo. |
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Fookn Dubai luckily blags top dog honours and thinks hes king of the castle (only kidding mate and wd again (ya jammy git
)Think you make a valid point though and it was deffo one of the reasons i stopped posting in the premier a while back . Thinking about it now im going to rejoin division 3 so i can vote yes if it gets that far lol |
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Sorry to hear you may be leaving pdb
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2 suggestions
1. Rather than add a point to odds against winners, settle at BFSP in the hope bigger priced winners are usually retuned bigger than ISP (though admittedly not always). 2. Slightly more radical, and it could be a pain for the settlers, allow each-way selections. So hopefully napsters will be more prepared to take a chance with longer shots if they know a place will be rewarded. Hence the option to go 1pt win OR 0.5pt EW. I know it's not the norm for a naps league, but in the 'real world', EW betting is perfectly acceptable! |
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If the OP`s suggestion is adopted I am out.
Don't all cheer at once. |
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Whatever is suggested will cause friction as before when changes were muted.
Any more ideas/suggestion? |
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I wouldn't be averse to GEORGE's suggestion of using BF SP,though it might cause problems for the settlers as the Timeform site doesn't always update that quickly.
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If salmon goes
I will follow and a few others i know will |
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Only my 2nd
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It`s something i`ve thought about in the past salmon, along with increasing the numbers competing.
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i don't see how it is a problem?
As I have said before, being in the Prem is not important in the slightest, it is where you are in the rolling yearly naps table that is the only truly worthwhile measure of your ability. And you wont get to the top of that by picking odds on shots every day of the year. Josh Monk, Hong Kong Phooey, bosstipper etc,......they didn't go around napping Frankel and his ilk!!!! |
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It ain't broke so don't try to fix it! (and my nap just won at 11/2
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Only my 2nd month in the competition so my first question would be the handful of tipsters who are picking odds on shots just to keep themselves in the premiership day in and day out are never going to win the thing but are very unlikely to be relegated but how did they manage to get into the premiership in the first place?
Why dont the organisers have a trial from Jan 1st allowing a maximum of 2 odds on shots per calendar month and if a 3rd tip wins at odds on it is simply void and goes down as a -1 Also all odds on shots void on the final day of the month? |
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I agree with madhatter. I don't have a problem with napsters selecting odds-on chances. I would vote to leave things as they are.
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1. Rather than add a point to odds against winners, settle at BFSP in the hope bigger priced winners are usually retuned bigger than ISP (though admittedly not always).
I like this idea best so far from GeorgeB. HKF will love that!!!! I cannot understand why someone wouldn't want to have a swing on the last day from mid-table but that is a defensive mindset they may have become stuck into after months of grinding. In fact I noticed a midtable 'cruiser' jump onto an odds on first thing on the last day this month - maybe he has some stats he is protecting, whatever, I don't presume to tell anyone what to do. But this is in a league format, grinding is part of it, same as getting an away point at Spurs. In defence, and I am guilty of this, sometimes you aint got time to study bang in a Frankel as a time pressured option. Another idea is to have last day rules every day. |
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Keep the thoughts/ideas coming troops.
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madhatter said - As I have said before, being in the Prem is not important in the slightest, it is where you are in the rolling yearly naps table that is the only truly worthwhile measure of your ability.
I have to disagree here, the yearly naps table is a biproduct of a divisional competition, the yearly naps table reflects ability achieved in this competition. It follows therefore that the people in the bottom division will not be at the top of the naps table. |
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not sure i understand what you're saying ming?
I'm saying that a truer reflection of a tipsters worth is better reflected by looking at their rolling yearly total than how many months they have clung onto a prem place by largely picking odds on shots just so as to avoid relegation. The misleading part of the rolling yearly table is that even good newcomers need to play for a year to incrementally work their way up the table...ie after 6 good months they wont be near the top because of the -60 they incur for the six months they haven't so far competed in, but this is needed or otherwise that table would be less meaningful if you just had 0.00 for all the months you weren't in it However, I think the more important issue here is that the settling task is an onerous job in the first place (i did settle the premier division for 6 months a few years ago) and any changes such as limiting the number of odds-on shots you are allowed to pick, giving bonus points for longer priced winners, using e/w options or the BSP will make the task even harder for those people whose goodwill we already rely on to do the tables for us. |
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I agree with madhatter. Particularly the last bit.
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I know Sundays are optional and very few post a selection but give a bonus if a Sunday selection wins - 4 sundays on average and most selections won't win anyway but a bonus for a winner on the optional day seems fair to me.
Only a small tweak in the overall scheme and won't make a huge difference from how thing are at the moment. Do whatever makes it easier for the settlers imo - Tough enough getting tables together |
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One thing i would like to add because it`s been touched on above. I can`t speak for the other settlers but from a personal point of view i wouldn`t like extra work. It`s not the amount of admin but the fact that it`s everyday, regardless of what you have on at home/work so nothing that causes extra work really.
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MADHATTER SAID - I'm saying that a truer reflection of a tipsters worth is better reflected by looking at their rolling yearly total than how many months they have clung onto a prem place
I get what you are saying pal and you agree to a point that the rolling table is misleading. However the game being played is a divisional one and is played as such - avoiding relegation and attempting promotion / winning the title is the aim of this game. If the goal was to be top the rolling table then the results would be different. Another way of thinking about it is to only run a rolling table then secretly form tables on results over a year - do you think people would have used the same selections? - of course not. I am not saying it is not indicative but to say the league is 'not important in the slightest' is way off the mark IMHO. This is why Dubai's point is a good one - because whilst midtable in the prem why not shoot for the title on the last day?.... again I don't presume to tell anyone what to do with their selections - maybe they had an eye on the yearly naps table, personally I think it takes care of itself. Maybe there should be a shift in kudos away from the naps tables and back on the prem to be honest - that is what we are playing..... uncoincidentally enough the rolling table winners get plenty of prem medals too. Somewhere I am at the top of one naps table - now that's the important one....  |
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If you're mid-table sure.
And on odd occasions I have done,which has got me promoted 4 times. Unfortunately these days I always seem to be in a position where I could go down on the last day  I also think we need to keep it as simple as possible for the settlers. Anybody who wants something more complex should offer to run a Table or shut the feck up imo. |
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One things for sure Phishy when it come's to having a good ole moan you certainly are
R.E.L.E.N.T.L.E.S.S.  |
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perhaps you should be limited to the number of odds-on favourites you are allowed a month (perhaps 10 as is the case with instructions given for non-selcetions) and if you go over your allocated number, it automatically goes on the first favourite of the day that is not odds-on. Tough luck if your horse starts odds against but goes off odds-on but maybe a better way.
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Just a thought. But somebody who is in the 3rd and who regularly just misses out on promotion is probably returning a lot more than someone in the premier just making sure they don't get relegated! I have had an ongoing arguement with a friend of mine who thinks that he is a superior tipster because he may be in division 1 on -£2.50 whilst I may be in division 3 on +£5 for example.
Surely the best tipster and the one deserving most recognition is the one who returns the most profit per month regardless of which league he/she is in. Couldn't it be arranged so that at the end of the month there is a combined table and the settling for the following month divided in to leagues of 4 (or whatever) based on position in the months final position in the table? |
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Believe it or not I am actually in favour of celebrating the more adventurous with extra points. Whilst at school I was always taught to play the game by the rules and the rules as they currently exist lead me to pick the safer horses (as does my div companion). However I have never picked Frankel and avoided yesterday's shocker with a 6/4 loser
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How about -
Betfair put up £3K prize money or charge £25 per entrant Betfair can can get a couple of celebs on board to promote it - it can 'rival' the RP version  Naps league runs from Jan 1 - Dec 31 There are no divisions Winner - £1500 Runner-up - £1000 Third - £500 Or however it divi's up depending on entries / Betty donation Napsters can nap what they like. Just a suggestion...  |
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Couldn't it be arranged so that at the end of the month there is a combined table? I think they used to do this pal - I have certainly seen a table like this in the past. I volunteer MOMM to do it
. Do you think that whilst it might be an interesting table it would lack 'depth'?. At one time or another we have all called a big priced winner - all you are doing is highlighting this one time event more. If you can do that regularly you will be top of all leagues so no worries.To be frank it would be an insult to the honour of my pristine selections to see them alongside the rabid mumblings of the gutter dwellers. I'm sure all you blaggers are fishing - FFS - hook, line, sinker - I'm literally tail walking here!! |
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Soldieroffortune was at one time top 3 or 4 in the 12 monthly table, so he may argue he'd rather be tipping the shorties and showing a profit rather than 'guessing' with longshots and going on long losing streaks.
And in the real world, there are people whose M.O is to back shorties. Plus the odds-on tipsters / backers will point out that picking shorties does not assure / guarantee survival / success! Each to their own, eh? Plus it will mean more Prem titles for DubaiPrince! |
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what about a relegation 'bye' - if you select a winner greater than 9/1 you are exempt from relegation.... they get a mark like
 next to their name....wow - you could win the prem and get relegated lol. I still think BSP is best, anything else I have seen so far is bubbles..... it's up to the settlers. It is what you make of it and I like it as it is - I really had to work hard at my weaknesses in this league to get up there and the league system has helped me greatly so thanks for that. |
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Imo the only change viable is to use Betfair Sp, although this would mean extra work for settler`s and I don`t now have the time, hence the lack of write ups etc. I said earlier I will be most likely retiring my settling dutie`s at the end of the year, so any new young blood with idea`s that would like to settle Division 1 please let me know.
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GEORGE - i contacted Betfair a while ago re cash rewards but they wern`t interested.
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Worth a go, Shane. Shy bairns get nowt!
You can see what a difference it makes to the AW comp. Stick up a prize and you'll get the interest / more competitors. And I suppose it will benefit Betfair if people have a reason to look at the races and end up betting their selections. |