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By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:17
It's very hard to predict what would happen just in an all out war with Germany and Russia though because a lot of the things that held Germany back would no longer hold them back. Ie. production low because of continual bombings, fighting on 2 fronts etc.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:17
War was inevitable anyway. Stalin probably would have attacked Germany in the end. And the longer time went on favoured Russia.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:19
Maybe, but only after a whole bunch of years, or if he had gathered Germany was severely weakened from attacking France (ha!) and easy prey
By:
Angela Rebecchi
When: 28 Mar 17 23:19
Not for an influx of resources you didn't, just a peace tract with one another.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:20
I think Hitler always regretted the Mussolini pact.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:20
Yer I am talking if Germany just sat there Edy. It actually would have taken years for that to happen if Germany didn't have resources tied up elsewhere, like at least 5 years I imagine.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:21
and to this day I don't understand why the japanese had to attack the US and get them involves. Like almost the entire pacific wasn't enough.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:22
The real issue Germany would have faced if you assume they make peace with Britain in 1940. Still have to find some way to try and take Moscow before end of 1941, and although you would have had a few more resources for this attack in that scenario, it's debatable whether it would have helped as the ultimate thing that stopped it was the weather that Germany simply were not ready for.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:23
If only global warming had kicked in earlier Cry
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:23
And also despite Germany being close to Moscow in 1941, actually taking Moscow would have been a different task altogether. Eg. look what happened in Stalingrad. Germany didn't even make Moscow in the end, but taking it would have been an absolute bloodbath which favoured the Russians, albeit I do think you could have largely prevented this by totally cutting it off (something you never did in Stalingrad).
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:25

Mar 28, 2017 -- 5:21PM, edy wrote:


and to this day I don't understand why the japanese had to attack the US and get them involves. Like almost the entire pacific wasn't enough.


More stupid was Hitler declaring war on the USA. Very debatable if USA would have got declaring war on Germany through Congress.

This is where Hitler being a mug didn't help. Ie. he just assumed American were mugs because of racial ideology but anyone with half a brain could see the industrial might of USA would effectively make winning impossible for Germany.

By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:26
Given once you declared war on USA you were then at war with the largest nation on earth, the largest empire on earth, the 2 largest industrial powers on earth. No-one would win under those circumstances.

You could have easily ended up with 2 separate wars if Germany showed a bit more savvy.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:27
Max Schmeling losing against Joe Louis should've taught Hitler that that US weren't mugs.
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:27
haha, Schmeling
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:28
But what can you expect from an Austrian failed post card painter?
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:30
There was some guy, I forget who actually who shot himself once heard Germany declared war on USA, as he realised you couldn't win.

But most of Hitler's people had no idea of the might of the USA, like none of them (except Ribbentrop) had ever visited USA, and obviously back then wasn't like today. Combined with racism, they foolishly thought USA could have no real effect on the war in Europe, they thought it would take like 30 years for American troops to effect the war in Europe (no idea why they thought this given this wasn't even the case in WW1).
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:31
Basically you did it just because US shipping supplies to UK was annoying and you wanted to do unrestricted submarine warfare against it, and you thought the USA would be no real threat in Europe for a long time.

This was extremely poorly thought out though of course.
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:35
i liked the story about that one Germug high up in NG who randomly decided to come to the UK and try and broker a peace deal
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:36
Rudolf Hess.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:37
A gazillion conspiracy theories around that and his later death.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:40
Some somewhat plausible, but why we would decide to bump him off when he was old anyway you don't really know why. Was going to reveal British war crimes, but unless there's some massive cover up going on, a lot of Britain's dodginess is known about if not really talked about.
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:42
i listened to a podcast about him ages ago but forgot most of the story
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:43
Hess died on 17 August 1987 at the age of 93 in a summer house that had been set up in the prison garden as a reading room. He took an extension cord from one of the lamps, strung it over a window latch, and hanged himself. Death occurred by asphyxiation. A short note to his family, thanking them for all they had done, was found in his pocket. The Four Powers released a statement on 17 September ruling the death a suicide. Initially buried at a secret location to avoid media attention or demonstrations by Nazi sympathisers, Hess was re-interred in a family plot at Wunsiedel on 17 March 1988, and his wife was buried beside him when she died in 1995.[128] Spandau Prison was demolished to prevent it from becoming a neo-Nazi shrine.[129]

His lawyer, Dr Seidl, felt Hess was too old and frail to have managed to kill himself. Wolf Rüdiger Hess repeatedly claimed that his father had been murdered by the British Secret Intelligence Service to prevent him from revealing information about British misconduct during the war. Abdallah Melaouhi, who served as Hess's medical orderly from 1982 to 1987, was dismissed from his position at his local district parliament's Immigration and Integration Advisory Council after he wrote a self-published book on a similar theme. According to an investigation by the British government in 1989, the available evidence did not back up the claim that Hess was murdered, and Solicitor General Sir Nicholas Lyell saw no grounds for further investigation.[130] Moreover, the autopsy results support the conclusion that Hess had killed himself.[129][131][132] A report released in 2012 again raised the question of whether Hess was murdered. Historian Peter Padfield claims the suicide note found on the body appears to have been written when Hess was hospitalised in 1969.[133]
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:45
He blew to Britain to try and broker peace. He had no real authority to do this though. Hitler claimed he'd gone insane (as obviously it looked bad his deputy doing this), and we just locked him up once he arrived.

The supposed motive is he thought a 2 front war would be disastrous Germany (as he knew Germany were about to declare war on USSR) and wanted to stop this being the case. Debatable whether that's true or not though. Loads of conspiracies he was tricked etc., but no evidence to actually support that.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:45
*flew
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:46
No talk of being tricked in the German documentaries I have seen on him
By:
nofx
When: 28 Mar 17 23:47

Mar 28, 2017 -- 5:25PM, n88uk wrote:


Mar 28, 2017 -- 11:21PM, edy wrote:and to this day I don't understand why the japanese had to attack the US and get them involves. Like almost the entire pacific wasn't enough.More stupid was Hitler declaring war on the USA. Very debatable if USA would have got declaring war on Germany through Congress.This is where Hitler being a mug didn't help. Ie. he just assumed American were mugs because of racial ideology but anyone with half a brain could see the industrial might of USA would effectively make winning impossible for Germany.


Cornered and mad on amphetamines probably, pretty much a solo act none of the army top was consulted on let alone agreed with, thinking he was just beating the US to the punch

By:
nofx
When: 28 Mar 17 23:48
and not outside the realm of possibilities that Japan's attack on the US was a false flag, of course
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:48
How are Germany documentaries phrased though Edy. Like are they written in a style of you want to forget your past so would just say the given story.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:48
Everybody was taking crystal then. Does it turn you mad?
By:
nofx
When: 28 Mar 17 23:49
if you take it for for while yes very much
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:49
He'd have to be a little insane anyway regardless if he was tricked. I mean who the f would fly on their own to the country they are at war with. Hardly a sound plan is it.
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:49
Germans don't want to forget
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:49
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIuI51kF0nGulo_oDZ2KOhltyvn0eywZw

looks a cool bunch of videos
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:49
except AfD
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:50
AfD might have more Polish and Russian voters than German ones
By:
aaronh
When: 28 Mar 17 23:50
Surprised
By:
nofx
When: 28 Mar 17 23:51
and a regime of amphetamines tends to go hand in hand with sleep deprivation, and not a lot of eating healthy meals
By:
edy
When: 28 Mar 17 23:51
Read an article yesterday how we Germans are not patriotic enough for people, including people with a migratory background, and that's why they flock to the likes of AfD, PiS, Putin and Erdogan.
By:
n88uk
When: 28 Mar 17 23:52
The first video Aaron lol reminds me of one of our crazy projects.

We were going to send a giant block of ice out to the Atlantic to use as an air base. Was seen as a somewhat ingenius idea as torpedos would have zero effect and would allow our aircraft to cover the entire Atlantic.
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