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Northern Ireland is a British ( UK) problem.
Northern Ireland is a British ( UK) problem.
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killed in action - 180 before the truce and another 17 after the truce. On 21 November 1921 the British army held a memorial service for its dead, of all ranks, of which it counted 162 up to the 1921 Truce and 18 killed afterwards. To an extent it depends how you define KIA in Ireland
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The Irish Republican Army (IRA) is a name used by various paramilitary organisations in Ireland throughout the 20th and the 21st centuries. Organisations going by this name have been dedicated to irredentism through Irish republicanism, the belief that all of Ireland should be an independent republic free from British rule.[1]
Flying Column No. 2 of the 3rd Tipperary Brigade of the Old IRA, photographed during the early 1920s. All organisations calling themselves "Irish Republican Army" claim legitimate descent (sometimes compared to apostolic succession) from this IRA of 1919–22. The original Irish Republican Army (1919–1922), often now referred to as the "old IRA", was raised in 1917 from members of the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, later reinforced by Irishmen, formerly in the British Army in World War I, who returned to Ireland to fight against Britain in the Irish War of Independence. In Irish law,[2] this IRA was the army of the revolutionary Irish Republic as declared by its parliament, Dáil Éireann, in 1919. In the century that followed, the original IRA was reorganised, changed and split on multiple occasions, to such a degree that many subsequent paramilitary organisations have been known by that title – most notably the Provisional Irish Republican Army which was a key participant during the Troubles. The contemporary IRA organisations each claim the sole right to use that name, as they each insist they are the only legitimate descendants of the original IRA |
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Lfc you have no clue about Ireland ...try a visit
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lfc1971 • May 9, 2022 8:26 PM BST
Now they see these same murderers being elected into government No one from Sinn Fein IRA - and no one who votes for these murderers is in any place to start preaching … about anything Ignorant bigot pal |
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In may 1971 the first British soldier to be killed by the official IRA
Robert Bankier Royal Green Jackets was killed by a unit led by McCann In 1972 McCann was spotted by a member of the RUC special branch who reported to the Army who were carrying out a road block McCann was approached by an RUC officer who told him he was under arrest He ran away , and was fired on by the soldiers . He was shot dead in joy street I’ve lived and worked in N Ireland , been there on holiday and know more about it than you Oh , and you’re the bigot mate |
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Noticeably, in your reply to my post, you did not deny that the British Crown, through its army on the streets, committed atrocious murders of innocent women and children on the streets of Ballymurphy and Derry.
In your silence you thus condone those actions. Nor did you deny that those atrocities acted like tinder in fanning a fire of IRA recruitment that would engulf Northern Ireland for decades to come. I repeat that the IRA did not exist in anything like the size, shape or form it would go on to become until the devil Faulkner, given carte blanche by spineless Heath, gave the British Army orders to do what it wanted to curb an organisation that had nothing to do with the people of Ballymurphy or Derry. |
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lfc , it is a matter of record ( South Down RUC) that Paisley funded the loyalists who caused explosions around 1966 . Gusty Spence was a big mate of Ian Paisley then . Those explosions were blamed on a non existent IRA ( tactics). In 1968 when The Troubles started seriously , the so called IRA had about 10 guns in the whole of West Belfast . In contrast there were thousands of guns in the hands of people so called loyal to the Crown throughout Northern Ireland in the B specials and the UDR ( plus a predominantly Unionist police force the RUC ). My brother in law ( a moderate SDLP supporter) handed in his wild fowl shooting guns at the start of The Troubles because he was afraid of them falling in to the hands of republicans who were desperate for guns of any description .
Northern Ireland was essentially a police state , set up to maintain Unionist control of 6 of the 9 Ulster counties . The Unionists also attempted to borrow the term Ulster by incorporating it in various titles and references eg " ULSTER" Defence Regiment , "Ulster" will fight and Ulster will be right when the reference rightly was "Northern Ireland " or "The Six Counties". Those are historical facts , acknowledged world wide , not subject to propaganda as displayed throughout NI history in Unionist disposed circles . Initially the British Army were deployed in Northern Ireland by the then Labour Government led by Harold Wilson to protect the catholic population who were under severe attack by loyalist mobs . There is historically accurate footage of the soldiers being welcomed in "Republican" strongholds such as West Belfast with tea and buns by the locals . Internment and replacement of the initial English regiments by Scottish regiments in "sensitive" areas of Northern Ireland led to the tide turning and disenchantment with the Army . These facts are not "republican rhetoric " , I am not a republican , any more than you are a loyalist supporter ( hopefully) given the loyalists track record during The Troubles ( which essentially they fired up ) . My sole political involvement was to join the Alliance Party shortly after it was formed in the early 70's , we struggled manfully to change the Orange/ Green aspect of Northern Ireland politics . Uphill battle in those bitterly partisan days , fraught with danger in moving about Belfast trying to talk sense into sectarian voters on both sides of the divide . 50 years later there is fruit on the tree , but acorns are slow to get to the height they attain as oak trees over 300 years and more . The inescapable fact is that Northern Ireland now has changed so that the so called Loyalist / Unionist / Protestant ( take your pick) population is no longer in a substantial majority as it was back in 1921 . Birth rates , educational opportunities , and emigration of the less committed Unionist younger citizens ( largely attending university on the UK mainland , and staying there post graduation) has altered the voting structure . The time for a border poll is not immediately , Sinn Fein in particular are savvy in that regard , they know their first shot at goal has to score , and they need to consolidate their vote and tactics south and north before they push the boat out . They will continue to talk up a border poll for electoral purposes , but like my own view they know that to win a workable border poll they need a portion of the current Unionist inclined voters/ citizens to jump ship and support them electorally at least . Hence the view that alignment with Europe via a border poll has been assisted substantially due to Brexit which has affected increasing numbers of farmers etc who traditionally were sympathetic to the Unionist cause . Sinn Fein have been laughing their legs off at the idiocy of the DUP over Brexit in particular , they have reigned in their oars and have just been sitting quietly watching the self destruction being effected on themselves by the DUP . On another note lfc , what is the real workable alternative to the NI protocol ? Nobody , least of all the nincompoops representing the Conservatives has come up with any sensible workable alternative to the current arrangement (which meets logic criteria and is the inevitable fallout from a hard Brexit) . |
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Kelly , it is not a matter of record that Paisley funded the attacks on electricity installations in 69 or any others
He didn’t , and there is zero evidence that he did . In 1965 the Shankill loyalists and Gusty Spence sent Paisley a letter accusing him of treachery . Next paragraph ; N Ireland was not a police state and not anything resembling a police state at any time And in the 1960s NI life was no different to any other part of the U.K. with all the freedoms and way of life that entailed Life for everyone was good just as it was everywhere else in Britain in those times . Those are the facts . Now Kelly you say the inescapable fact is that NI has changed , yes and no . And no more than there have been changes throughout Britain . It is probably true to say there have been much greater changes in the south of Ireland over that time The people haven’t changed , some are unionists , some nationalist same as it ever was . But yes the demographics have changed . And there may now be almost more nationalists than unionists . That’s life and nothing much will change that When there is s referendum the people can vote . And the people can decide , that’s fine |
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Another dildo comment "the south of ireland"
You dont even know where that is  |
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"i’ve lived and worked in N Ireland , been there on holiday and know more about it than you"
"N Ireland was not a police state and not anything resembling a police state at any time" Lies .....we have a bigot in our midst |
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Honcho , I’m not interested in your or anyone else’s support for the IRAs terrorist campaign
of bombings and murder of innocent men women and children . Doubtless you think the hunger strikes and time spent in the holiday camp of the h blocks helped recruit people into the IRA Now the IRA did commit those murders as I have described before ballymurphy and Derry And the IRA did receive support , and aid , and protection and help from the nationalist people in these areas When the British army goes to arrest IRA members in these areas it is the duty of everyone in those areas to not to riot , and not to help shield and not to help these murderers escape . That’s what the nationalists and republicans of these areas did and that makes them accomplices in the bombing and murders that the IRA committed |
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irishone .. stop projecting by using the term bigot or lier
That’s not nice or clever The south of Ireland ? that’s a little bit of banter between lapsy and myself Ask him about the north -you as usual haven’t a clue |
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You talk absolute bolleaux mate
Northern Ireland was never a police state Absolute sh1te |
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Plus you are bigoted in your leanings
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Irishone just because a dishonest bigot such as yourself states something doesn’t make it so
Now my description of N Ireland in the 60s is correct |
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Kelly , you make great play about being Alliance - perhaps you could explain why makes your
nationalist political outlook any different from other nationalists - or unionists for that matter It’s not apparent in anything you say . |
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* explain what
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Tbf to Lfc Irishone he does use 'South of Ireland' and that is in part because i refer to it as the Island of Ireland and any fool can look at a map and say yes,thats Ireland there.Just because a bit got taken off it a hundred years ago(like what the Russians are doing to Ukraine now),it is still all Ireland.
Kelly is quite neutral and i have no doubt he is v honest in his postings,if he says he supports Alliance he would do and that in itself is a good thing. He is Irish,lives in the Northern part and loves the country. |
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That’s all fine and good lapsy but that’s not what I’m asking
I’m asking Kelly how does he differ from any other nationalist , (or indeed unionist ) Because it’s not apparent in his posting |
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lfc , suggest you research your history of the Rev Ian Paisley to know exactly the sort of person he was and how he used people to do his dirty work . Gusty Spence was a regular visitor to Paisleys home in the evenings . Lord knows what discussions took place there .
If you google his history the second paragraph of "Opposition to the Civil Rights movement" ties Paisley up with all the emerging loyalist movements and gangs active in 1966 . Gusty Spence in particular had a long history of being involved in all 3 letter loyalist movements since the 1950's . Anyone who was either a catholic , or a civil rights worker , or had the temerity to be be running a business in the "wrong" part of town ( Belfast) was deemed to be fair game for being attacked in some way . Paisley held meetings at which he shouted out the names and addresses of catholics "worthy of attention". In later years Spence ( allegedly) commented that he wished he had never met Paisley . In those later years Spence wised up and rectified in some way his prior terrorist activity by involvment in the "Peace Process". The South Down RUC report clearly specified documentary evidence of Paisleys part in funding the purchase of explosives which were part of the plan to destabilise Northern Ireland . Paisley was targetting the NI government led by Terence O;Neill which Paisley deemed was deemed to be too friendly towards catholics and the Southern Irish government . "Taigs out" was the mantra of Paisley and associates in the 3 letter loyalist groupings , one led by Gusty Spence . At this time there was virtually no IRA active in Northern Ireland , and they had little or no support among the catholic community which was being targetted by Paisley and loyalist groupings . The Provos emerged as a defence against loyalist and state violence in later years , Paisley and co were the main fomenters of civil unrest in the 1960's here . Anyone who doubts that did not live through that period here , or led a sheltered existence and was only conversant with redacted history / propaganda . I have no truck with the Provos or Sinn Fein , but they have to be viewed in the wider context of history , not just via a redacted version . Still no workable solution to the NI protocol problem being documented here by you lfc . Answers on a postcard to Brandon Lewis , copy to us here lfc . |
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^ qed
I see you haven’t answered my question Kelly Until you can or make an attempt to I’m not going to believe anything you say , sorry Take your time …. |
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If you even make an attempt to do so it would be good
If you can’t , then that tells us all we need to know about your so called ‘ alliance party ‘ and indeed yourself Go ahead … |
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The problems of the Brexit/Good Friday agreement are palpable.
The hard brexit favoured by the Tories with the DUP support are simple. If you have a hard brexit there has to be a trade barrier between U.K. and EU. Ireland is in the EU Either there is a border between Ireland and U.K. or between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Good Friday agreement is clear - no border on the island of Ireland. Therefore has to be a border in Irish Sea. This dismays Unionists. Why therefore did the DUP support brexit and prop up the Tories and support the get brexit done rubbish spouted by the Sleaze? |
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I don't have any questions to answer lfc . My views and reportage stand the test of scrutiny as unbiased . The DUP versions of history which you presumably support are completely bigoted , after all some of their most active members believe the world started in 4000 BC .
Interesting that you now seem to be anti Alliance judging by your comments . Wonder why ? Still no answer from you to my straightforward question "What do you replace the NI protocol with which is compliant with Brexit and international agreements " ? Your disagreement with my version of history is based on your personal mindset , and your attempt to deflect questioning or logical answers is typical of someone who has backed a loser and does not want to acknowledge the fact . |
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Kelly that’s all very well but I’m not questioning your view of history
I happen to disagree with it and think it is narrow and biased and dishonest Nevertheless that isn’t the question - the question is this You profess to vote and a supporter of the ‘ alliance ‘ party How do your views and political beliefs differ from any other nationalist ( or indeed unionist ) Go ahead … |
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And just for the record lfc:
Sinn Fein was formed in 1905 as a political movement . The Provos ( whom you refer to as IRA ) were formed in 1970 approx in response to loyalist and state activity essentially . The UVF were active before 1912 , at which stage they were instrumental in propagating the seditious document which became the underlying basis for partition and the creation of Northern Ireland . Add in the Curragh mutiny where the then Army refused to follow orders issued by Westminster and you might begin to appreciate the events which led to the 1916 Rising and the turbulent years which followed that affecting every person in Ireland , south and north . The UVF introduced the gun into Irish politics , even the most biased Unionists admit this . In the early sixties the majority of catholics/ nationalists would have accepted the status quo of Northern Ireland if there had been a level playing field aspect to community here . Terence O'Neill was trying to move ( slowly) towards more equality , hence he had to go in Paisleys eyes ,the sooner the better , no matter what the method / tactics . "We are the people " was never far from those ultra Unionists lips in those days . The fact that there is more or less a level playing field ( post GFA) nowadays is what sticks in their craw . Despite the fact that they have the same rights as everyone else in Northern Ireland . But their embedded position as top dog having disappeared and their foot having been taken off nationalist necks they cannot stomach . |
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lfc , Alliance political viewpoint and historical activity ( as mine)will stand up to scrutiny before any unbiased jury in the world , based on equal rights for all citizens . Alliance are not beholden to any church or any secret organisations or orders , have no spots reserved for appointees and do not require any royal assent . All the world accepts that , with the possible except of Jim Allister and a sizeable rump of DUP supporters . Labelling Alliance supporters as nationalist is just another pathetic attempt by ultra unionists to scare part of the Northern Ireland electorate into the "No Surrender" camp . Fear influences attitudes , spectacularly in Northern Ireland political history. Paisley was the master at that.
Still no solution to the NI protocol problem coming from you lfc. |
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Still no answer Kelly - you see if you are unable to answer just say so
At least that would be more honest You see I’m not easily fooled by people who profess to be something that they are not Now for the final time as an ‘ alliance ‘ voter How does your political view and outlook differ from any other nationalist ( or unionist ) Let me know when and if you can …. |
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That’s ‘ you ‘ Kelly
I’m asking how you differ and how your views differ from any other nationalist ( in your case )or unionist Go ahead … |
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Can you point to any of your posts on this thread as evidence ?
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I'd suggest Lfc you haven't questioned or challenged any of the factual details Kelly has posted but do latch on tightly to the one thing that is probably indisputable from his perspective but can't be validated for you, partly because you have a preconceived idea of his position through a narrow lens of bias and anticipate you can nail him around this for his honesty but in fact the reverse is the case a bit like the NATO border.
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You can comment on the poor family of Sean Brown Lfc,you like to bring up just the one side.
The police had to pay an undisclosed sum to the family,they(the PSNI) are another who also took just the one side. |
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pecker , lapsy I don’t need any baloney from people like Kelly or anyone else talking about NI
When I know what that country was like intimately . Now I’ve addressed all the questions many times I’ve asked Kelly a question which he hasn’t answered … |
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You haven't answered re Sean Brown yourself.
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Tell me what you think happened in that case
And I’ll take a look - now remember I like facts |
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While you are at it and you can look yourself,tell me was there collusion between loyalist terrorists,the NI police and the British Govt.
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I’ll check in later to your reply lapsy
Put down what you think happened - thanks |
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Every file on the case went 'missing' Lfc,it was a cover up,there you are.
At least you haven't denied the police/loyalist terrorist/British govt,links because you simply can't. |
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Check in later, put up something like 'look over there', big bags of money being handed out left right and centre because you by fook tried to cover things up and still are.
A rotten shower,is that the real loyalist NI love of Westminister? covering up their sheet? FFS traitors to the people of NI,a selfish intolerant horrible lot. |