Politics
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 159 comments are related to the topic:
Northern Ireland is a British ( UK) problem.
Northern Ireland is a British ( UK) problem.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 159
|
By:
Thd lies Doris told about the border
|
|
By:
Indeed,none of the cap doffers want to say look what Boris did,everyone elses fault,EU Ireland,Joe Biden etc but it is in fact down to Boris,getting Brexit done and winning an election.
Sinn Fein has called for an independence vote for the last 100 years WD, they are consistent,it will be years off yet but it has to get a referendum if people want that. |
|
By:
Young people are not voting alliance
They are there because it a proportional rep They get votes from the main parties - unionist or nationalist as a second preference or third or forth preference vote Sometimes a tactical vote to keep out the nationalist or unionist party That’s all that has happened - nothings changed and nothing ever will |
|
By:
the handover of Northern Ireland to Dublin is the direct and undoubted result of a long campaign of ruthless murder, which the USA did not perhaps hamper or oppose quite as vigorously as it might have done.
It will be the first transfer of territory as a result of violence in Western Europe since 1945. This was written in the Daily Mail today supposedly by a reputable journalist. Personally I wouldn’t call Peter Hitchens a reputable journalist because he is conveniently ignoring what has happened in Eastern Europe over the last 10 years. There are many fools who post here like lfc who think it is ok for our leaders to blatantly lie without reproach. Journalists like Hitchens imho are not much better. |
|
By:
othings changed and nothing ever will
So why are you constantly whinging and even bleating like sheep? |
|
By:
wd I’m not , I’m certainly not saying that there shouldn’t be a border poll
I am however saying that people - and that includes Irish nationalists ( and remainers and the EU and everyone else must obey and respect the British citizens ( or Irish if they insist ) vote I’m sorry if you don!t like to hear that |
|
By:
Now try not to go off on some squirrely tangent again wd
I’ve had quite enough of you doing that today |
|
By:
Oh and doubtless no matter how lovely Kelly’s parents were ( born before 1921 )
I don’t particularly want to think I should worry too much about that either - thank you |
|
By:
Get on the IPA son. It’s about time
 |
|
By:
The real tragedy about this thread is that when the village says he's going for a walk the fcker always comes back.
Well done Kelly. Great thread and very well explained and presented. The UK's days in Ireland are numbered that;s for sure. |
|
By:
My parents were born in an Ireland without any border posts , UDR patrols , triptyques( permits for motor vehicles) . Thankfully now post GFA there are no border posts , no UDR patrols , and no triptyques ( although we need a green card from our UK motor insurance provider when we travel across the border into the Republic ).
I was born in a Northern Ireland where there were border posts , UDR patrols , triptyques , a Northern Ireland where infamously the most prominent Unionist declared that NI Parliament represented a "Protestant Parliament for a Protestant People " . Effectively in a police statelet , there were few non protestants ( Unionists by another name) in the police or in the UDR . Hence my reference to my parents being exported to a different set up post 1921 . They had no say in the matter , it was a decision made in Westminster , despite the overwhelming desire of the majority of citizens south and north to be united as one country . One country free of rule from England . As expressed in the only forum then relevant , the 1918 election referred to in previous posts . Michael Collins headed up the Irish ( one country/ nation) delegation for discussions regarding the relationship between Ireland and England and was threatened with a savage and terrible war by Lloyd George and co if he did not accept partition . Ireland had no army , all "security forces" were under the control of the British , and Britain had all the military back up it needed to wreak havoc in Ireland against any Irish militia cobbled together by the native Irish . Being a realist he advised the delegation to sign up for partition , knowing effectively it would lead to civil war in Ireland and remarking that he had just signed his own death warrant . He died aged 32 , shot by anti Treaty forces in his native county of Cork . But England had been kicked out of 26 counties in Ireland , nationalists in the North were marooned in the remaining 6 counties in the North , with the promise though ( empty) of a border commission to examine some tweaking of the border . The northern nationalists had no say in their fate , and until last Thursday had no effective hope electorally of being in a re united Ireland ( albeit as part of the EU ). That's the background to current situation which will probably result in stalemate given recent statements from DUP sources . Unionism has been led up the garden path by the emergence of the ultra s led initially by Ian Paisley snr. Had they been decent with the nationalists enclosed within the NI six counties there would have been no need for the Civil Rights movement whose suppression led to 30 years of "The Troubles" . But the ultras wanted to keep their foot firmly on the necks of the Taigs ( nationalists ) , hence the emergence of the Provisional IRA who did not exist until then .Ultimately the Provos and their supporters threw in their weight to Sinn Fein , who have existed since before partition it should be acknowledged . Sinn Fein were a political non entity in the North prior to 1970 when the Troubles realyl kicked off . Sinn Feins basic tenet has always been for a United Ireland , it is not a new development , a fact unrecognised by UK and other media . I am not a Sinn Fein supporter , I am firmly in the Alliance camp , but I recognise where Sinn Fein are coming from , and they have a lot more political wit/ savvy than their polar opposites in the DUP . They are not only the majority party in the North , post Thursday , they could also possibly be the majority party down south . That is reality whether we like it or not . They work harder than most of the others , and gather votes that way irrespective of ideology . Brexit has not helped our political situation here , it has poured petrol on any flames which had been extinguished by the Good Friday Agreement . The DUP have been fanning the flames by asserting that the NI Protocol affects their Britishness . The NI protocol is paper work and checks , does not affect the strength of a passport , and does not stop anyone standing for "the Queen" . A smoke screen for political ineptitude associated with Brexit , and essentially a vehicle for their in built love of flag waving to stir up their supporters . The only solution to the NI protocol is checks at the border instead of at the ports , and some would like that scenario to return , to emphasise the difference in jurisdictions and assert their Britishness . The DUP in particular were against the Good Friday Agreement , but one suspects they were told to take it or leave it , leave having implications regarding their Britishness . Muddy waters all around . Not helped by bumbling government . |
|
By:
The partition of Ireland didn’t arise without reason A number of factors were responsible
It was not imposed arbitrarily by Britain . It was an outcome dictated by political , economic and religious differences Nationalists and their leaders like De Valera believed the division was entirely artificial . He was wrong It was based on the above realities . And it didn’t help that nationalists , like Sinn Fein IRA thought they could bomb and murder their way to changing that reality Collins signed up to partition which resulted in a civil war between nationalists in the south By the time it ended more had been killed than in the whole of the preceding war of independence That is the background to the formation of Stormont and the government in Dublin The two governments viewed each other understandably with some loathing and suspicion and distrust Nationalists were dominant in the Irish parliament , Stormont dominated by Unionists The two governments mirrored each other Kelly by the way only gives a partial quote when referencing James Craig . In 1935 Craig , the NI prime minister , this is what he actually said : ‘ They still boast of Southern Ireland being a Catholic State , ‘ All I boast of is that we are a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State ‘ The following year Eamonn de Valera the leader of Fianna Fáil government in Dublin declared in public that Ireland was ‘ a Catholic nation ‘ - although nearly one quarter of those living on the island were Protestants |
|
By:
It is also very instructive when Kelly claims to be an Alliance voter
And yet seems incapable of seeing things from a Unionist viewpoint Here are his words on the Irish Sea border and how it doesn’t affect Britishness : “The NI protocol is paperwork and checks , does not affect the strength of a passport and does not stop anyone from standing for ‘ the Queen ‘ And yet he fails to see the irony when Nationalists insist that any such customs checks or similar arrangements anywhere in the south of Ireland in their rightful place as the EU border would threaten peace and a return to violence by nationalists and republicans The inability to see things outwith this nationalist and republican prism is almost comical If it wasn’t so worrying and sad ‘ |
|
By:
Who cares what you think? You don't vote so your views are irrelevant.
|
|
By:
What an idiotic thing to say, my cat doesn't vote but she's clearly ten times brighter than you.
|
|
By:
lfc, the might of the British Army , plus the other security forces could not control the 375 mile border between north and south . For every authorised road there was an unauthorised road .
Controlling goods at several ports is an easy option compared with trying to control the uncontrollable at hundreds of border posts . Plus returning to border posts as in the days of effective police state control is against the internationally recognised Good Friday Agreement which is essential to stability in Northern Ireland . The mindset of the Unionist population led to the formation of Northern Ireland , based on a program of sedition initially . Northern Ireland is based on a seditious document , even the most committed Unionists admit this . Northern Ireland might have got by if the Unionists had played a straight game , but they did not and inevitably and unfortunately the lid blew off in the late sixties leading to 30 years of Troubles . 50 years of being tolerated as second class citizens culminated in a valid civil rights movement being suppressed by force with inevitable consequences . There were no Provos in 1968 , they arose in response to state violence via the B specials and the UDR mainly , and some police activity . Add in idiotic internment of 100% innocent citizens and we got an explosive cocktail , all happening internally within the UK in full view of the world . The ultra unionists as represented mainly by the DUP do not deserve any bye balls given their track record . Most unionists I know think the protocol is the unfortunate legacy of trusting a dodgy tory government , but the DUP are attempting to use it to stir up the political scene and distract the voters from the reality that is the result of Brexit which the DUP embraced hook line and sinker despite its inevitable consequences . If you back the wrong horse you lose your money . Trying to get your money back is futile and a waste of time . They need to get on with life and get back in the saddle by helping to govern this part of the world . You cannot always play centre forward when you are not the best player for that position , especially if the ball is longer designated as your particular preserve . Stomaching playing second fiddle may be hard for them , but they have had 100 years as top dog , abused that , and it is changed times . The die hards unfortunately still know how to foment trouble , which should worry us all . |
|
By:
Kelly the nationalists in N Ireland waged a terrorist campaign for forty years that resulted
in the murder and horrific maiming of men women and children I think the unionist community have been very stoic and forgiving in the face of this savage madness How it didn’t descend into total civil war is a miracle And testemant to the forebearance and basic goodness and bravery of the unionist community and it’s people Don’t dare to start preaching about playing the game |
|
By:
Now they see these same murderers being elected into government
No one from Sinn Fein IRA - and no one who votes for these murderers is in any place to start preaching … about anything It’s best if that was understood |
|
By:
By the way stop using misleading phrases and half truths
You say there were no ‘ provos’ in 68 But there was an IRA , in fact i was just reading today about John Hermon head of the RUC who was sent to Coalisland as a young officer in the 1950s - after an IRA bomb |
|
By:
I'm on the side of Sinn Fein here in England.
Ireland is one country. So gratifying to see the DUP gangsters kicked to the pavement. |
|
By:
You’re quite entitled to your view biscuits
Good to see you are now a lover of democracy - that’s progress |
|
By:
You’re quite entitled to your view biscuits - lfc
Knock yourself out. Perfidious Albion was always hell-bent on reneging on the EU agreement - will be interesting to see how that plays out with the "Union," after QEII demise. |
|
By:
Ah I see , still angry with democracy after all , tut tut
I guessed as much  |
|
By:
Hopefully, the contradictions of Brexit within the wider arms of Europe will lead to the destruction of the "Union."
|
|
By:
Whatever if it makes you feel better ok
It’s of no interest to me in any event Might happen in ten years , maybe 100 |
|
By:
I can live anywhere on these islands , and in Europe
Isn’t that nice ? |
|
By:
Yet another thread where Brexit cannot go unmentioned. Will they ever let it go??
 Democracy rules and good luck to all. |
|
By:
lfc , use of the term Sinn Fein/ IRA shows your colours . Anyone who uses that slogan type language would have to allow the term DUP/UVF .
There were no Provos in 1966 when the UVF , funded by the subsequent DUP founder kicked off what resulted in "The Troubles" , causing explosions / damage which was blamed on a virtually non existent IRA at that time . Fomenting trouble , aiming to destabilise a weak Unionist government of the time led by Terence O'Neill , but with Bill Craig pulling the strings as Minister of Home Affairs . Coat trailing and loyalist rallies preceded the Civil Rights movement , destabilised what passed as a government at the time , and Paisley got rid of Terence O'Neill who was a fairly moderate unionist . But O'Neill had the temerity to engage in friendly discussions with Sean Lemass , the leader of the southern government . So in Paisleys eyes he had to go , you could not as a unionist be friendly with anyone remotely classified as Irish . Reference the Unionist point of view to the current situation . Can you assure the forum lfc that any unionist in Northern Ireland does not have the same rights as anyone else in Northern Ireland .Unionists and non unionists alike have suffered equally from Brexit , but only the DUP are making such a big issue of the NI protocol , as a smokescreen . All the other parties except the TUV ( one Assembly member) recognise the problems associated with the protocol , but have signalled their intention to work towards a solution rather than downing tools . The NI protocol is a matter between the UK and the EU , and the DUP were heavily involved with the UK government in establishing Brexit and all that was involved with Brexit . Again an example of the DUP backing the wrong horse and now wanting to call the race null and void . |
|
By:
Kelly that’s more untruths , that’s every time you post now , not good
The ‘ provos ‘ didn’t exist in 66 - but the IRA did and the IRA were involved in bombing and murder in every decade Paisley did not fund the UVF Paisley didn’t ‘ get rid ‘ of O’Neil as you like to phrase it He defeated him in an election - at the ballot box - that’s democracy do you not like that Now that’s just the first few lines of your dishonest one sided republican viewpoint The rest is nonsense also |
|
By:
Sinn Fein the largest single party lfc
Democracy in action  |
|
By:
The IRA did not exist in any meaningful shape, form or size in '66 so once again you are talking through a hole in your posterior. The recruitment started/ignited like a wildfire after the Crown sponsored atrocities of Ballymurphy and Derry.
Try and get your facts right handholder. The main instigator of the IRA of the "Troubles" was the British Crown. |
|
By:
unitedbiscuits
So gratifying to see the DUP gangsters kicked to the pavement. Not sure why you feel the need to call them gangsters, care to post some links. On the other hand though you seem happy that known terrorists are now the dominant party. |
|
By:
Right honcho here are the facts
The first British soldier killed by the provisional IRA was shot dead at Lepper St North Belfast , Robert Curtis 20 years old It was Feb 1971 Ballymurphy : August 1971 Londonderry : January 1972 Get your facts right before you start talking nonsense |
|
By:
On the night Gunner Curtis was killed his unit had been ordered to assist colleagues
in the Queens Regiment nearby . The unit was brought in after widespread rioting in the area We came down the road and a bonfire was burning and people were out throwing stones and that’s when the shots were fired “ The volley of shots that claimed the life of gunner Curtis was the second burst of gunfire aimed at his unit , which suffered several casualties that night |
|
By:
That was the provisional IRA that committed that murder , and attempted murders -
at the start of 1971 |
|
By:
What’s your point lfc?
Our soldiers have killed people all over the World and you call people defending their communities terrorists? Warped! |
|
By:
WD you would be best crawling back to the Dr Who thread
You’ve a question to answer there … |
|
By:
You certainly havent
|
|
By:
On-the-run Official IRA commander Joe McCann (24), was killed in the shooting in the Markets area of Belfast in April, 1972.
Forty nine years later, two former paratroopers, known as soldiers A and C, have gone on trial for his murder at Belfast Crown Court. On the opening day of the non-jury trial, a prosecution lawyer told judge Mr Justice O’Hara the veterans had not been legally justified in opening fire on McCann as he ran away from them. |
|
By:
The court heard that McCann was a member of the IRA Army Council who had been on the run from the authorities since the introduction of internment without trial in 1971.
|