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The US would still be subjects to the Queen if their founding fathers had drafted like that.
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'OF the Queen'
Come on, Z. I took the trouble to become fluent in Bulgarian! People used to pay me a lot of money to draft documents. Then I retired ![]() |
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It shows! It doesn't have any typos!
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MEN, here is a better draft constitution ....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roster Limits Status.....................Min........Max Active Players...........0..........18 Reserve Players.......0..........3 Injured Players........0..........1 Total Players............0.........22 Position (Active Min) (Active Max) (Roster) Total C 0 1 4 1B 0 1 5 2B 0 1 4 3B 0 1 5 SS 0 1 4 OF 0 3 5 U 0 1 3 P 0 9 12 Scoring Settings Scoring System Rotisserie System. Player Policies Description Setting Player Eligibility Players are eligible at their primary position, plus positions they've played 20 games last year or 10 games this year. Pitcher Minimums Pitchers must accumulate at least 1000 innings pitched and can not accumulate more than 1400 innings. Player Pool MLB. Transaction Settings Description Setting Lineup Policy Standard ESPN rules Lineup Deadline Standard ESPN rules Add/Drop Policy Standard ESPN rules (possible maximum, possible minimum keep time) Trade Policy Owners may do trades. Trade Deadline No trades can be made after the trade deadline of 11:59 pm et 8/15/12. Offseason Trades Owners may make trades during the offseason. The following is the constitution for BF Auction Keeper League. It will be updated only to clarify existing rules and when rules changes are approved by a majority vote of team owners. Prizes are intended to enhance interest in participating fully throughout the Major League Baseball season and, to the extent possible, the offseason. The fun of winning, of improving, or just competing should be the primary purpose. However, prizes will be allocated with the intention of rewarding the best teams/owners and providing incentive for struggling teams to continue to remain active. Accordingly, each year, the owner of the team that increases its standings point total the most between the All Star Break and the end of the season (without finishing in the top three positions in the standings) will be eligible for a prize. Governance The league’s initial commissioner is the founder, Uncle O. The other two initial members of the Executive committee are Zeeny, Jeter, Ron and Fenway. In the absence of the commissioner, any of the other Executive Committee members, but preferably two in agreement, can act in his stead. One member of this committee will act as treasurer. The commissioner or another Executive Committee member can be replaced by a simple majority vote of active team owners. Similarly, any rule can be changed by a simple majority vote of active team owners. This is meant to be a democracy (pfft) , and a source of fun. Player Pool Espn’s player pool Fees and Prizes £35 The first place winner will win 50% of the prize fund, the second 25%, and the third 15%, with the remaining 10% to the most improved manager. Rosters Active roster slots will include one catcher, one first baseman, one second baseman, one shortstop, one third baseman, three outfielders, one utility players (any hitters) and nine pitchers, or 18 total active players, plus a bench of three players. Rosters must be set as per ESPN rules Live Online Draft $260 per team, keeper values are their original auction value + $5 . Draft time will try to accommodate all players Waivers. Waivers are operated using the standard ESPN system, anyone picked up off waivers will be allocated a $3 value or their original draft price, whichever is higher. Keepers Keepers must be selected by the 11:59pm on the 1st Sunday in March Team owners are expected to remain active, at least during the regular season. They are expected to make reasonably frequent player moves in response to real world MLB schedules, injuries, benchings, demotions, promotions and other opportunities to remain competitive. If a team owner is unable to manage his/her team for any substantial period of time, such as because of illness, business travel or personal reasons, he can ask a member of the Executive Committee to manage his/her team for as long as necessary. Executive Committee members will handle those responsibilities in good faith. They will not initiate trades or accept trades, or place waiver claims Trades Trades can be made at any time except Aug 16th through Oct 31st. Trades can be protested within 48 hours of the time they are announced by the teams. If they are obviously unbalanced in the opinion of the commissioner the trade will be put to vote for 24 hours with at least 50% of the league needed to vote against the trade for it to be vetoed. Conduct If a team owner fails to meet generally expected standards of sportsmanship or fails to maintain active management of a team over a significant period of time, he will be thrown out the league at the end of the season Abandoned Teams Should an owner resign from the league, be removed from the league or fail to maintain active participation in the league, a new owner will be sought out, if no one can be found the roster will be added to the player pool League Expansion Should a simple majority of team owners vote to expand the league; current teams will be able to protect 4 players and the new team will be able to select 5 keepers from the remaining pool of players with a maximum of 1 player per current team Long-Term Imbalance If your team finishes in the bottom three slots of the standings for two consecutive years, i would consider drafting a better next year if i was you Hell Freezes Over In the event of hell freezing over @internet_rich may be permitted to participate in the league. |
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My cliff notes.
Roster size is best @ 23(+ 2DL) if 15 or more and 25 + 2DL if 14 or less.(assuming we keep 5). 32 roster size is "OLOL look how deep our league us!" instead of serving an actual purpose(unless we run minor rosters, which doesn't seem to be the case) Any line up except standard MLB(9) hitting line up is what I'd call so far from real baseball that it doesn't allow my weak mind to fantasize enough to even call it fantasy baseball. So, as far as I'm concerned, if we have additional MI/CI spots and 5 OF, I'm out. I know some people enjoy it and if this is something managers want to try, fair enough, I'll just see you all in the veterans' league! I've done leagues with RF/CF/LF and that's actually a bit of fun while staying faithful to the game, Pitching limit above 1400 is imo, unnecessary, but whatever. 5000IP limit with big roster size is an invitation to win W's & K's by default. The rule where a bottom team gets a player from a top team blows my mind. If the goal is to boost bottom teams, let them have additional funds in draft or be allowed to keep a player at no cost for 1 year, or have a free pick on FA etc. Why would that involve punishing a top team breaks the logic barrier for me. Especially as I doubt any one team could dominate so it will most likely be several close at the top and one of them will get shafted. Everything else seems secondary, at least to me |
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OK, first off, this is a discussion thread about how best to put together the constitution and no-one is sulking their way out of the league - so let's try to avoid throwing in an ultimatum in a reply.
The rosters do look big to me too and the provisions for 'rescuing' poorly performing teams are a bit odd, so these appear to be the initial points of weakness - what we have to think about is the best solution. |
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Ok.
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Does your roster size allow for the 'prospecting' element, Z?
I agree about the 5000IP limit; I'd rather throttle the upper limit. We'll ditch the rescue clause altogether. |
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O is clearly well versed in the art of negociation
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Again, my negotiating skills were once paid for with sacks of gold - you would do well to take notes, young fella-me-lad
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i've always prefered the 'if i dont get my way i'm not playing' method, although the things i've had to negociate have never had such blindingly obvious concessions as this constitution has
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Z
...i think the 32 is meant to incorporate any injured players and minor league players although these numbers can be played around with of course ...if the active roster is greatly reduced and therefore the rosters themselves, we will probably be filling our rosters with major leaguers rather than minor leagures ...i think part of the fun is to pick up a couple of prospects and keep them to see if they turn out to be potential nuggest or not i'm happy to start with less players and increase after a year if we feel it might be more competitive ...or start with more and reduce |
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guys I see a lot of people want to include a minor league element. I agree this would be a fun addition to the game, however I just dont think it can work if we are only keeping 5 players as all minor league players are far too fringy to ever get kept.
My proposed solution is an additional keeper list per team of 2 non mlb rostered prospects (we could make it 1 or 3 too, whatever) . Theres a couple of ways this could be done to define who and who isnt eligible - 1 - eligible only if they have never played in mlb in prior seasons - this would be easy to track but makes keeping them close to pointless as a "full mlb keeper" if they only played a few games and are no longer eligible for the next years minor keeper list. 2 - make a certain % of games played to determine who is and isnt eligible. So if a player only plays 15% (maybe as a september call up) of games the previous year (and only as their 1st year in the league) theyd still be eligible as a minor league keeper. I only say 15% as an example and we`d have to agree on the actual value, including working something out for pitchers. |
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I like Nilsson Schmilsson proposition of league set up too btw. Its pretty much what we`ve been doing all along in the other leagues.
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that looks like a good point ...your right ...perhaps keep a max of 5 players plus 2 free keepers on top of that....keeper eligibility based on a max of 150 AB or 50 IP in majors?
this would satisfy those who want to pick up the 17 yr old venezuelan in the coconut league and satisfy those who want an auction each year with plenty of studs likely to be available ...prob just need to decide on roster size and limits |
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I love baseball for many reasons. However I am afraid I am not conversant with the Appalachian Rookie League or the SLG of Jovan Pickett of the Idaho Falls Chukars. I am a simple soul, and having read the proposed rules I am not sure that the Keeper League is for me.
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altho its a good idea if we want minor league players, I think a lot of people (not saying me) dont want to go as in depth as to know about minor leagues for our fantasy games.
I think its important that we should vote on some of the key issues about league set up OR just say lets keep everything the way it always has been and just add 5 keepers. Im not saying this constitution thats been written up is bad, but its not really the way I want to play and talking to a few others they feel the same way. We have quite a long time before we need to do a draft, so I think its important that every one gets a say in what they want for this league and we`ll try to come to best consensus possible. key issues as I see them - do we want keepers - if so how many - do we want minor leaguers - if so how many - roster size - 23 + 2 DL / other suggestions - what kind of roster construction do we want - same as always (c,1b,2b,3b,ss,of,of,of,util + 9 pitchers) / new idea / as suggested in constitution - the need for a salary cap - pitching limits - 1000 min, 1400 max / other suggestions - prize set up - 1st 50% 2nd 30% 3rd 20% / other suggestions - waivers - last to use waiver claim has 1st pick / FAAB - ESPN (free) or CBS $160 league cost - Trades during offseason ? - long term inbalance rule ? I think these are the main issues. If people could also make a note if theyre flexible on an issue they should note that too. |
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Obama 2012!
I'm super flexible. MN knows. |
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- do we want keepers - YES (flexible)
- if so how many - 5 - do we want minor leaguers YES (flexible) - if so how many - 2 - roster size - 23 + 2 DL / other suggestions - 23 + 2 DL (flex) - what kind of roster construction do we want - same as always (c,1b,2b,3b,ss,of,of,of,util + 9 pitchers) / new idea / as suggested in constitution - same as always (flex) - the need for a salary cap - NO - pitching limits - 1000 min, 1400 max / other suggestions - 1000, 1400 (flex) - prize set up - 1st 50% 2nd 30% 3rd 20% / other suggestions - 50/30/20 (flex) - waivers - last to use waiver claim has 1st pick / FAAB - FAAB (flex) - ESPN (free) or CBS $160 league cost - ESPN - Trades during offseason ? - YES - long term inbalance rule ? - NO |
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- do we want keepers DON'T CARE
- if so how many DON'T CARE - do we want minor leaguers NOT REALLY - if so how many NONE - roster size - 23 + 2 DL / other suggestions YES - what kind of roster construction do we want - same as always (c,1b,2b,3b,ss,of,of,of,util + 9 pitchers) / LF RF CF - the need for a salary cap LOST ME - pitching limits - 1000 min, 1400 max / YES - prize set up - 1st 50% 2nd 30% 3rd 20% / PRIZE FOR IMPROVED TEAM - waivers - last to use waiver claim has 1st pick BUT NOT THAT FUSSED - ESPN (free) or CBS $160 league cost [b]ESPN ESPN ESPN ESPN[/b] I DON'T WANT TO PAY PART OF MY ENTRY FEE TO PLAY A FANTASY GAME - Trades during offseason WHATEVER - long term inbalance rule NO |
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the salary cap question is this -
Salary Cap The maximum salary of all active and bench players on a team cannot exceed $365. If an owner’s team exceeds the cap at any time, he will have 72 hours to bring it into compliance or the commissioner will, after repeated warnings, make one or more player moves on behalf of the owner to bring it into compliance. |
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well then NO, that stupidly over complicated, rule 1 is that it's supposed to be FUN FUN FUN, not a part time job
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Bloody hell, J! Have they let you have coffee or extra sweeties?
I've never seen you so pumped up! I think you do touch on some important elements and ask the right questions. Fen also makes a good point that we need to strike a balance between the baseball professor and the willing fantasy player, so that both can enjoy it and be competitive. I think this point mitigates against off-season trading and minor leaguers. I would add two things: 1. Although the keeper league looks a little involved, I think if you give it a chance, you'll find it's the most interesting and rewarding format and once you've got the hang of it, no more of a commitment than the Vets' league. 2. Ultimately, someone is going to have to decide. Canvassing opinion is a great idea, but it's the type of process that can be endless. With this last point in mind, I hope everyone will allow me to put up a final draft on Saturday. You all know how useless I am at fantasy baseball, so I'm hardly going to opt for a complex set of rules, and I hope you all trust me to be as accommodating as possible, to make the league as enjoyable and competitive as I can. I'm not suggesting this to put one over on anyone, or play the big man, it's just we'll need to move on the league and I'm much, much smarter than anyone else ![]() |
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The cap can make it much more interesting, Ron.
That’s where finding sleeper picks come in, and finding the best bang for your buck. It’s a little like the whole “Moneyball” concept – you have to find the best possible value for each position, on a budget. If you see a player with a big name and big dollar sign, and you can find another player with less of a name who can do close to the same production, you can get a good deal, and have more money to spend on another position. (c&p) |
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- do we want keepers - YES (flexible)
- if so how many - 5 - do we want minor leaguers YES (flexible) - if so how many - 2 - roster size - 23 + 2 DL / other suggestions - 27 incorporating unlimited DL (flex) - what kind of roster construction do we want - same as always (c,1b,2b,3b,ss,of,of,of,util + 9 pitchers) / new idea / as suggested in constitution - same as usual but with 3 utility spots (min 1 IF or OF/DH),(flex) - the need for a salary cap - NO - pitching limits - 1000 min, 1400 max / other suggestions - 1000, no upper limit (flex) - prize set up - 1st 50% 2nd 30% 3rd 20% / other suggestions - 50/30/20 (flex) - waivers - last to use waiver claim has 1st pick / FAAB - FAAB (flex) - ESPN (free) or CBS $160 league cost - CBS - Trades during offseason ? - YES - long term inbalance rule ? - NO |
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haha cheers O! just trying to help, you do the best job as commish as we could hope for :)
1 yes i agree 2 i agree that it can be endless, I was hearing a lot of negative responses which is why I figured it best to deal with these issues now than wait a few days before and then a panic. If everyone can vote on the questions ive made then we should see what we all want to do, decisions will still have to be made but it should be a lot easier. |
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Dave
sorry ...just saw your post ...i'll abide by whatever you decide i think Jeter's idea of 2 minor league Free Keepers takes away the need for extended rosters though still a fan of CBS ...but the vocal consensus seems to be for ESPN and if keepers are limited to 28 or so then no need for the deepest database |
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I WANT A COOKIE OR I WON'T PLAY.
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I'd like your answers to what will forever be known as 'the Jeter interrogative' though, Z.
Despite the fact I've sent a hit squad to find you and feed you a plate of sausages, I respect your opinion. |
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I'm not suggesting this to put one over on anyone, or play the big man, it's just we'll need to move on the league
why? |
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We draft in 11 days - if we decide the constitution on Sat 17th, that leaves 5 days for people to decide they're in, pay, join and prepare their draft.
That doesn't include me refunding people who've overpaid, or drop out. That seems a sensible timetable, but not one with a great deal of wriggle room, so we need to move on the league. |
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may i suggest a better way to avoid 'moving things on' would be to get sign up threads up before the start of ST, then having done that not to decide to rip up the leagues and start again changing draft dates multiple times to do your best to create a keeper league that i would guess no more than 3 people really want
but what do i know ![]() |
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you know NOTHING !
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i'd like to add that i've been drinking, and jeter says hello and zeeny says relax
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OH, and fen is upset he didn't get a mention
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Just remember, Ron, it's never a good idea to drink on an empty head, even in the BOC.
Although 5 or 6 of us kick these things around publicly on here, other regulars prefer to get in touch privately and have expressed an interest in a keeper league. Remember though, if it's a complete washout, we can always ditch it and continue with a Vets and an Auction league next year, so it's a shot to nothing that may just give us a different league players enjoy. |
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- do we want keepers - YES (flexible)
- if so how many - 5 - do we want minor leaguers NOT REALLY - if so how many - - roster size - 23 + 2 DL / other suggestions - - what kind of roster construction do we want - same as always (c,1b,2b,3b,ss,of,of,of,util + 9 pitchers) - the need for a salary cap - NO - pitching limits - 1000 min, 1400 max upper limit - prize set up - 1st 50% 2nd 30% 3rd 20% / other suggestions - 50/30/20 (flex) - waivers - last to use waiver claim has 1st pick / FAAB -Waivers,waivers waivers - ESPN (free) or CBS $160 league cost - ESPN - Trades during offseason ? - YES - long term inbalance rule ? - NO. This just means Z gets to nick one of my players every few years. A good discussion going on last night. Ill go with whatevers decided. I like the concept of a keeper league but if you decide not to go with it, im cool with just the auction. Im not going to play in 3 leagues tho! Would rather stick with the usual line-ups. Have played in a MI/CI, 2 C's etc league before and its too deep. I didnt enjoy it at all. If we have to pick some minor leaguers then so be it but just the simple idea of 5 keepers at last years price seems basic enough to be fun to me! Like O says, if we hate it, its just another auction league and we can carry on as normal next year. Oh and Z is VERY flexible xx |
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- do we want keepers - YES
- if so how many - 5 - do we want minor leaguers (Is this somethig that could be added year 2 if wanted?) - if so how many - 2 - roster size - No DL and 4 or 5 reserve spots - what kind of roster construction do we want - How many members in the league? (If 12 or under MI/CI and 5 CI. If more our standard) - the need for a salary cap - NO - pitching limits - None let people punt categories if wanted - prize set up - 1st 60% 2nd 25% 3rd 10% 4th 5% (Nothing for most improved manager, It's a keeper league so that should be the thing "keeping" you interested all season. - waivers - last to use waiver claim has 1st pick / FAAB -FAAB (As it is a keeper league everyone should have a fair shout at players) - ESPN (free) or CBS $160 league cost - ESPN - Trades during offseason ? - YES - long term inbalance rule ? - NO. What premium are keepers going to be kept at 15% rounded up or $5? Is there a limit to how long you can keep a player 3 or 5 years? |
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And if you do want an imbalance rule just remove the tax on keeping players for 1 year!
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