Irish Sports
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24 Nov 09
18:33
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Date Joined:
17 Jul 05
can someone explain the implication of the irish ring not using exchanges during the month of december?
Will the on course ring be a lot stronger as the hedging money goes around the ring?
Hypothetically if you were lining up a horse for a gamble during the month of december would you be better off waiting for the show or trying to nick whatever you can at the earlies?
thoughts?
Will the on course ring be a lot stronger as the hedging money goes around the ring?
Hypothetically if you were lining up a horse for a gamble during the month of december would you be better off waiting for the show or trying to nick whatever you can at the earlies?
thoughts?
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Replies: 120
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thats the first I heard of this. I must have a chat with Paddy Meehan who runs the ring on Saturday at Fauiryhouse whats going on here.
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maybe i've got it wrong - and apologies if i have - but that was certainly my interpreation of what i heard
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The books think it will stop hedging into the exchanges which will in turn improve their holdings/turnover. Flip side of that is the money they hold by laying on the exchanges will be missing, and that could prove a bigger loss for them. Will they all observe the ban???
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I will believe it when I see it . If each bookie surrenders his mobile ( and those of his staff) at the gate I will eat my hat . Impossible to monitor such a "trust" operation .
Guarantee you they will all have their computer hook-ups working --"for information only " . I have no gripe with the way the on course bookies operate nowadays , anyone who wants to bet with them is free to do so . But if there is better value elsewhere ( on the exchanges ) why bother ? Betfair SP ( which is not always the best price a horse has been , only the "off"price ) beats returned SP most of the time , even after paying commission , so cant understand why anyone bets at returned bookie SP if they have the Betfair option . Backed a horse ( winner) myself today , at 11/2 --Betfair at that point was 5/1 . Horse traded around , drifted , won at 6/1 . Betfair SP 8.7 . Naturally I kicked myself for missing a trick , but the 1.7 margin represents a near 13% increase in odds . And that is only one horse in a race . Percentages and margins are what it's all about . |
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I think you will find that quite alot of Irish bookmakers wont have any problem whatsoever not hedging back into exchanges for the month of December or any other month for that matter.
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This will work cos any bookie not complyin i.e layin off on machine will be treated same as dundalk bookies..they will receive no off bets from fellow books and will be dead in the water. Remember books brought this in, betfair is ruining the on course game and it is all their interests to make this experiment work..
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Jeez driveon if you think that this is the answer you are in for a rude awakening. It's a dying kick, no more
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jeez, wish i was as clever as kelly.
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your not wrong there jimeen..cause half of them have fcuk all in the exchanges,and de other half are after knocking them.
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jimeen/DP - the Bookmakers may not have a problem with no hedging but what about the ones that lay horses bringing money into the ring. Its a total ban. The oncourse punters as usual will suffer because the ring will be less competitive.
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Scuse my ignorance but why would an on-course bookie lay a horse on here?
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Because punters with money have been bit thin on the ground at race meetings recently.
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So on-course bookies are laying on here and then spreading those funds around the ring.
Why bother going to the ring at all then if all they are doing is propping each other up - why not just lay on here full-time? |
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Who said anything about spreading the funds around? they lay on here to balance their books/when they cant get a horse oncourse.
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I thought you did!
xis a ruof 25 Nov 12:57 jimeen/DP - the Bookmakers may not have a problem with no hedging but what about the ones that lay horses bringing money into the ring. I presumed you meant that the bookmaker lays the horse on here and then bets it in the ring which in turn creates turnover in the ring. Sorry if I misunderstood you. |
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Are they going to attempt to stop punters using exchanges/mobile devices as well ?
Jeez I have heard it all now. |
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LOL no betfair!! wouldn't suit u closure, how would u figure out what to back?
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Driveon , reference the bit about the dundalk bookies , are you saying that the other bookies will not trade with them ?
I presume though that the public still bet with them , and I suspect that according to sp returns the dundalk bookies should at least all be in funds and able to offer competitive prices ( at other tracks ) . It would be interesting to know ( but impossible I think ) what percentage of turnover on course actually comes from the betting public , rather than the money which is moving around in between punters , hedgers , bookies , exchange transactions et al . |
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all bookmakers bet with the dundalk bookmakers.....but they send someone else in to have the bet 4 them.....2 faced cnuts
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Brazilian ring very nice any month.
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Not true all over, avoided by the majority like the plague
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Thsts right Ian I forgot, only bookmakers are allowed to use Betfair
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In case we might win
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rasher it is true
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closure 25 Nov 20:41
Thsts right Ian I forgot, only bookmakers are allowed to use Betfair closure 25 Nov 20:41 In case we might win No - everyone can use betfair, but 96% of people use. Everybody can't use bookmakers though, unless you form ur opinion early enough when it's not an arb or on the cusp of an arb...tricky customers those bookmakers |
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* 96% lose
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Jeez Marm it is hard to take your tripe at times. You wouldnt be able to pick your nose on yourown without being told where to put your finger and yet feel you have the right to come on here**ging people off.
The next time you come on here spouting I'll start publishing some of the goods on you. You are the lowest form going and so typical of so many form where you started your career |
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OMG is crouchingtiger1 Ian Marmion??? If it is what a God damn hypoctite he is.Does he still work for VC,the firm who need Betfair to tell them what prices they should be going horses.You couldnt make it up!
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Yep Dennny - you're right, I apologise, I just wish I was as successful as you - the old green eyed monster is all it is...i won't say anything again
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insideinfo 26 Nov 10:19
OMG is crouchingtiger1 Ian Marmion??? If it is what a God damn hypoctite he is So what if it is him ! rather read what he has to say rather than some clown talking about how to set up cheltenham nights etc - so try not run these guys away from here , always interested to see what the guy has to say .... |
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Catch yourself on kerrygold,he has a cheek coming on here lecturing others about using Betfair when his firm wouldnt know weather a horse should be 10/1 or 10/1 on without them.
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inside - i know were you are coming from - but i think he was just trying to be a company man at the time - things change - peoples motivations change - I doubt he still feels the same about some of the stuff he said on behalf of v c i
we all make mistakes |
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i can never understand why bookamkers hedge into betfair. If you;re laying at what you percieve to be a price in your favour (under the betfair price could be one measure), then in the long run you will make your expected margin. if you just hedge it back onto betfair you eliminate bad and goods runs, but you end up in the same place but you have to pay commission. if I was able to lay a guy 10/11 heads 10/11 tails in a fair coin toss, I wouldn;t be running off to hedge it at evens minus commission. why not just let results run their course.
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A few points.
1) Davy Hyland sometimes goes higher than betfair. However he doesn't entertain any arbers. 2) All the bookies have electric points at their pitch for the laptops. They are run by an x bookie. And they aren't linked to betfair. Someone else. |
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vc get their morning prices from shane reville not betfair .
most on course layers are just ** drones. soapp d hyland lays the two biggest arbers in the ring namely aidan the dogman and david mudrash why are people so concerned with the on course layers ? just compile your own prices and pick off the value.maybe all the contributors are just like the aforementioned ian marmiom and cant judge an apple from a pear. |
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purple drones
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Thanks for that contribution, Shane.
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this is the irish forum "guess who" fred imho
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i aint shane my man
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