War in Vietnam the most humiliating of all. Who invaded who there? America or Vietnam doing a 9-11?

Mr Vance was so out of his depth in the Oval Office. He spoke like someone on social media or a poster here. Utter sh1t, and the American people should be ashamed having these two political "monkeys" to represent them on the world stage sucking up to mad Putin.

Japan has learnt from their part in World War 2, America seems not to despite the humiliation in the Vietnam War.

Love to know how the Secretary General expects Zelensky to patch things up with two bits of work who are intent on showing him no respect whatsoever. There's no guarantee that all the grovelling in the world will achieve anything.

The 90 minute phone call….

October 7th wouldn’t have happened….ffs….ffs….ffs….the largest helmet in history…..

Hamas its me the estate agent behave now…..idiot…

Wants to opencast Ukraine and put American workers in operating machinery….putin won’t touch them….

Yeah they’re fkn miles away…..

One senator has come out and apologised:

“I don’t care what title you hold! This isn’t some long gone reality tv show or failed casino….this is war! How dare a draft dodging dumb dupe humiliate an ally and berate an actual brave man who has actually been on a battlefield for his people?!”

I actually agree with Trump's attempt to initiate dialogue as the situation hasn't been improving at all, which isn't the same as saying Zelensky should merely accept any old deal.

But Trump trying to pitch a few US workers extracting minerals as a solid basis for Ukrainian security just shows us what he's truly in it for. Hell, he's not even trying to hide his lack of interest in Ukraine and to have the arrogance to suggest that as a security guarantee is indicative of the echo-chamber and bubble this rampant egomaniac lives in.

A more capable vice-president could at least have mitigated the damage, but Vance is a political lightweight and in way over his head.

Starmer's bootlicking visit the other day, while understandable in the circumstances, is not aging well at all. If there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for a Trump state visit then, there's certainly even less now.

What an utter cringe fest.
I suppose Trump is probably the first POTUS for a long time, probably since Reagan to realise he is the ACTUAL most powerful man in the world and he is going to act like it.
Zelensky, I have a lot of sympathy for his situation but if you roll up at the White House you have to play the game. Even Macron understood that.

As for the war, its an avoidable conflict.
The argument, peddled in the west that Putin is Hitler incarnate, well that appears to be a bunch of horse manure that Trump has seen through.
Putin is in his seventies. Been in the job for donkeys years. The only countries he has invaded are Georgia & Ukraine. Both have large Russian minorities who were under attack from ultra Nationalist regimes, seeking to blame Russia for their impoverished state once they gained independence.

Of course, the fact that Putin has been in power for such a long time is not a good thing. But then who do we have to thank for that?
Mikael Gorbachev was supposed to lead the Russians into the promised land of capitalism.
He was a good friend of Mrs Thatcher. His plan, with her advice, was a staged process of privatisation. Bit like what she did here. It wasnt til her second term that Mrs T introduced the BT share sell off. More followed but it was gradual.
Thing is Mrs Thatch, was as hated by the UK establishment as she was by lefties like me.
When Gorbachev told her in 89 that the Berlin Wall was going to come down some time soon, the intelligence agencies laughed in her face. Seems they were as clueless then as they are now.
The whole end of the Soviet Union caught them unawares.
The UK and the US rushed to install capitalism. Favouring Boris Yeltsin over Gorbachev. Privatisation was swift and instantaneous. And utterly catastrophic. The west had eyes on Russian oil and gas but were outmanouevered by guys like Roman Abramovic. They employed a strong man, Putin, to run the country. And here we are now, still picking up the pieces.

Typical western-liberal sh!t show.

My thoughts entirely along with 'its an avoidable conflict'. Yes, if Ukraine just waved a white flag. As regards 'playing the game' the only people playing games were Trump and Vance. Trump can see weakness all around Europe and all the grovelling is not certain to make any difference to how hep acts. It certainly hasn't so far.

My thoughts entirely along with 'its an avoidable conflict'. Yes, if Ukraine just waved a white flag. As regards 'playing the game' the only people playing games were Trump and Vance. Trump can see weakness all around Europe and all the grovelling is not certain to make any difference to how hep acts. It certainly hasn't so far.

What's the achievable outcome that you foresee, that would result in Ukraine recovering all the territory it wants, and not trying again in our lifetimes. And how would it be achieved?

Ukraine will never recover all the territory she's lost certainly not in the presidency of mad Putin. I think Ukraine ought to think about the best possible outcome from war. This will depend entirely on the influences and participations of EU, Canada and possibly Australia; Ukraine cannot do this on her own for obvious reasons.

I think the EU and the UK might have to go it alone, and not expect economic and military support from the US as a given; EU and the UK must take the lead on this given the geographical position of Ukraine. I think Trump could be trying to appease mad-Putin (and sacrifice Ukraine) for a coalition with a post Putin Russia.

impossible, what makes you think Russia is so powerful that all the countries in the EU alone can't do anything about the invasion?

I do not believe the EU will fully commit towards Ukraine war eg troops on the ground, military hardware, etc, even if mad-Putin Russia increases its assault if America is signalling their unwillingness or reticence to get (fully) involve; Ukraine is not as significant as Poland its neighbour for obvious reason.

Ukraine could be used as a pawn for future peace and non-Russian aggression into Europe; The EU has little option or choice but to accept mad-Putin in a negotiated "agreement" for a ceasefire.

I think an already weakened Russia could still be a good ally for the US post mad-Putin era; the Chinese is the ultimate project for the USA. Trump does not like or trust mad-Putin; he needs him though for geographical and strategic reason.
On the other hand the Chinese are deeply detested, hated and distrusted by the US because of its ever-increasing political influences (Africa and S Asia), economic and military might.

The UK should not be directly involved either. I'm fine with temporary sanctuary and humanitarian aid, not depleting our meagre defences or boring more cash to hand it over to the former comedian.

borrowing

Trump said it as only he can. Zelenskyy would prefer ww3 to conceding ground to Putin.

What happens is Ukraine carry on, surrendering isn't an agreement, they'll carry on and it is America that are in an awkward spot because they will not cease their support for Ukraine, even without the mineral deal in place because I think that Trump will recognize that as we see the inevitable demise of Ukraine with all that would entail, America would begin to look worse and worse as they stand by and watch it happen, I think that will play horribly on the world stage and in particular with all the "fcuk yeah" American tough guy core support that Trump has.

So yeah, Europe needs to man up but Trump will still keep the support going, he knows it and that is what is pi55ing him off IMO.

Why so much distaste for Zelensky Cider referring to him as a comedian, which he was. Wasn't Regan a B movie actor and Trump a TV personality and former Bankrupt amongst many other things most decent people would find abhorrent.


No distaste. Was out of his depth on Friday

(Out of his depth), he was bullied from the start and wasn't allowed to speak, even pilloried for what he was wearing. Didn't lick their @rses like Starmer did, was a disgusting spectacle.

(Out of his depth), he was bullied from the start and wasn't allowed to speak, even pilloried for what he was wearing. Didn't lick their @rses like Starmer did, was a disgusting spectacle.


Clearly you have only seen a clip, and not the full pc.