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Charles Byrnes suspended.

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Replies: 220
By:
ribero1
When: 19 Jan 21 19:57
Same here workrider.
By:
onlooker
When: 19 Jan 21 20:22
This is already a good read - from irishracing.com ...

The statement released on Tuesday in relation to the suspension of Charles Byrnes’ training licence was ground-breaking in many respects and sets a new high standard for the IHRB going forward. It bucks the long-established practice of only feeding scraps to the racing public about stewards' inquiries.

The investigation into the ‘nobbling’ of Viking Hoard at Tramore in October 2018 took over two years to complete and, while Byrnes’ direct involvement in any wrong-doing was not proven, he was deemed as responsible for all matters concerning the welfare, training and running of his horses and was ultimately found to be negligent in the supervision of his charge at the racecourse and had his licence withdrawn for six months.

The IHRB statement, which totals 14 pages, and can be read HERE, details every aspect of the investigation into the doping of Viking Hoard at Tramore and also raises some important questions into how wide-open racing is to such unscrupulous individuals as those that profited from this criminal act.

Besides the actual doping of the horse which put the safety of many people at Tramore that day at risk, not least jockey Kevin Brouder who could have been killed, it was the betting patterns that were particularly disturbing.

Viking Hoard was laid for considerable sums on the Betfair Exchange on three consecutive race days including the day in question at Tramore. These lay bets were all initially placed by an individual ‘in a distant part of the world’ through a limited liability company which in turn placed the bets on the Exchange.
This shady individual is also known to have previous involvement in ‘match fixing.’

The big question that needs to be asked of Betfair is how this is allowed to happen?

It would also be helpful to know what other horses this individual has placed lay bets on in the past.
Was it just this horse Viking Hoard three times in a row or is he doing this on a regular basis, and is the outcome always the same?

As the IHRB pointed out “this case illustrates the specific and additional challenges and dangers to the integrity of racing posed by the widespread ability to back horses to lose for significant returns. The desirability of this practice or how it might be better controlled within the available regulatory resources is worthy of further, constant review.”

While this IHRB investigation was both thorough and costly in terms of time and resources,it ultimately failed to convict anyone for the crimes committed on the day at Tramore and that has to be a worry for the sport.
As it stands, there is nothing in place to stop this exact same incident happening again. For all we know it may happen regularly.
We certainly see enough alarming drifts in the betting market to suggest everything isn’t always right
.

It’s virtually certain from the findings of this case that Viking Hoard was administered a sedative while in the stable yard at Tramore. Unfortunately, there was no CCTV in the stable area, so we will never know who carried out the dirty deed.

This is not the first time that a lack of CCTV evidence from the stable yard has impacted an IHRB investigation.
A few portable cameras set up on race days in the stable yards could easily solve this problem and avoid similar situations in the future.
By:
windsor knot
When: 19 Jan 21 20:30
its sad all round really . solwitt and weapons amnesty top class horses trained by a man who could obviously play at that level and did so for gigginstown. whilst gambles have been and  always will  be part of the game its a shame his name is associated with that sphere  alone nowadays .
By:
ofiveone
When: 19 Jan 21 20:33
"initially placed with a limited liability company,
how is this right?
By:
ribero1
When: 19 Jan 21 21:16
Excellent onlooker.
By:
Kriskin
When: 19 Jan 21 21:54
Thosedaysaregone run at Navan 3rd July behind Felix Desjy was a disgrace.  Opened at 5/4 and drifted out to 5/2 minutes before the race.  Never put in to the race.  Comments from Racing Post - Raced in mid-division, kept on one pace into 6th 2f out, went moderate 5th inside final furlong (jockey said gelding was flat out throughout).  You couldn't make up those comments by the jockey if you watch the race.
By:
Deptford
When: 19 Jan 21 22:10
Every one on here could pick untold rides every day that are filth, as I have said before, no one either side of the water are at all bothered what is going on, a rancid filthy stinking mess, dont expect the media to say anything, coward gravy train cowards, every single one of them, when you see Pure Bubbles given such a ride and the jockey fined £160, what is the point? I would love to hear why there are not untold investigations to betting patterns on here, I wont hold my breath.
By:
flukes
When: 19 Jan 21 22:27
Anybody able to post the RP article titled "'White label' customers no longer able to place lay bets on the Betfair Exchange'?
By:
windsor knot
When: 19 Jan 21 22:37
deptford , i can feel you anger through the screen and i understand it . but this is not a betfair problem . i've been racing since 1978 and way before exchanges horses were given easy times , pulled and drugged . really . i would go far to say these are much better times and racing is straighter now then in my early punting days . there is nothing 100per cent  pure and honest about anything in life , why expect it from a sport/ business driven by betting ?
By:
Cash Is King
When: 19 Jan 21 23:26
'White label' customers no longer able to place lay bets on Betfair exchange

Betfair have said they are unable to comment on the details surrounding the Viking Hoard case, which has led to the six-month suspension of trainer Charles Byrnes's licence.

It is understood the route by which lay bets were placed on the horse via what the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (IHRB) has described as a "limited liability company" and then with Betfair has been closed since 2019. The unnamed limited liability company referred to is also known as a 'white label', in this case a business-to-business partner of Betfair.

Betfair's parent company Flutter has a section on its website specific to the 'exchange white label', which it says: "Provides partners with the ability to access and leverage the global Betfair Exchange.

"Partners can offer their customers an unparalleled exchange experience by harnessing Betfair’s exchange liquidity and leading product offering."

It adds that: "Partners can offer their customers access to Betfair's global liquidity pool."

Concerns that such arrangements might allow gamblers to avoid identity checks and risk illegal gambling were raised in a Financial Times article in July 2019.

At the time Betfair insisted their partners were all licensed operators and were required to conduct 'know your customer' checks as part of their licensing and contracts with Betfair.

Betfair also said they had access to the details of any individual customer account. The IHRB has said there is no evidence to connect Byrnes with the betting patterns.

The Flutter website says that exchange white label customers "have the option to 'lay'". However, it is understood that since 2019 the function to lay bets on white labels has been removed by Betfair.

Asked about Tuesday's announcement concerning Byrnes and the Viking Hoard case, Betfair would only say: "We are not commenting on an ongoing investigation."

In August 2006 Betfair signed a memorandum of understanding with the IHRB's predecessor the Turf Club which allowed the body to investigate betting patterns when wrongdoing was suspected.
By:
screaming from beneaththewaves
When: 19 Jan 21 23:47
onlooker19 Jan 21 20:30Joined: 18 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 35,077 | Blogger: onlooker's blog
What about the OTHER 2 races - the  two outings before Tramore ... where it was also Heavily LAID?

At GALWAY - Where it went off 11/2 joint/fav - having drifted from 4/1  ... despite having Won it's previous race by 15 lengths - and only been raised 11 lbs .... Yet was PULLED UP

Was   it not TESTED at Galway - as a beaten fav ?

Then - at SEDGEFIELD - Where it DRIFTED from 9/2 to 10/1 ... despite there only being 5 Runners ... Surely it should   have been TESTED there, too !

Were both sets of Stewards having a day off?


___________________

According to the Post, the horse WAS tested at Sedgefield, and turned out negative.

Don't know about Galway though.
By:
flukes
When: 20 Jan 21 08:33
Thanks Cash Is King
By:
Storm Alert
When: 20 Jan 21 09:28
Thanks Cash is King. I see there is an article hidden behind premium subscription on Racing Post. Anybody know if that has any more information?
By:
cloone river
When: 20 Jan 21 10:22
Hi screaming what have you against the second and third names on your list?
By:
screaming from beneaththewaves
When: 20 Jan 21 10:36
Well, they employed the first one on the list for a start.
By:
screaming from beneaththewaves
When: 20 Jan 21 10:43
But then again, Henrietta Knight was also just a victim of circumstances. When Hachty Boy ran at Wetherby in May 2002, it was found to have the stopping drug ACP in its system. Like Charles Byrnes, Knight had no idea how it got there.

The difference is that Hachty Boy actually won the race, though it was subsequently disqualified.

On reflection all the names on that list should have no aspersions cast upon them.
By:
posy
When: 20 Jan 21 10:53
On reflection all the names on that list should have no aspersions cast upon them.


screaming i'm sure we all understand the background to your post however it would probably make sense to get it removed.
By:
cloone river
When: 20 Jan 21 10:57
He may have been got at screaming?Only had one run after that.
By:
sageform
When: 20 Jan 21 10:58
what has happened in the past is interesting but does not affect the seriousness of the current case. The RP today publishes a lot of evidence which states that the horse was given 100 times more than the minimum dose that could be detected and that it could have been a danger to the rider, other horses and stable staff in that condition. If it was an inside job, they must be naive to think that it would go undetected. Slack security seems more likely and the perpetrator must feel immune from detection or prosecution.
By:
Storm Alert
When: 20 Jan 21 11:07
What seems to be somewhat unexplained is the betting pattern for two further lay bets placed on the horse, at Sedgefield in October 2018 and at Galway in July 2018. On the former occasion, €30,279 was risked, representing 71 per cent of the lay market, while on the latter €55,000 was risked, again representing half the total market.

Is it understandable that the trainer trainer Charles Byrnes would have no idea about his horses wellbeing whislt at the same time some other individuals were totally confident in laying the horse?

'White label' customers no longer able to place lay bets on Betfair exchange is one thing but of course win lay bets still allowed?? Who thinks this laying mechanism is good for the sport? If individuals want to lay horses to lose no way should they be able to hide behind a "white label" mechanism.
By:
cloone river
When: 20 Jan 21 11:10
Was doping not a problem in the 80s and 90s both in Ireland and England?
By:
tonyb50
When: 20 Jan 21 11:13
storm alert if layers are not good for the sport there would be no backers explain please?
By:
Ramruma
When: 20 Jan 21 11:15
The first four pages of today's Racing Post are devoted to this story.
By:
sageform
When: 20 Jan 21 11:18
Of course backing and laying are mirror images in the normal course of events but when one bet takes out 70% of a market, serious questions should be asked.
By:
workrider
When: 20 Jan 21 11:32
sageform I think they were hence the inquiry...
By:
sageform
When: 20 Jan 21 12:12
But can they identify who did it?
By:
Storm Alert
When: 20 Jan 21 12:19
tonyb50 storm alert if layers are not good for the sport there would be no backers explain please?

Of course there needs to be layers and backers. It's the 'white label' mechanism I have problems with it appears it can be abused as in this case to gain anonymity. I expect to betting on the outcome of a race run fairly not on a horse which has been nobbled with no openness and transparency from the laying party.
By:
workrider
When: 20 Jan 21 12:29
A very fair point Storm , do you think Betfair are protecting those who are making such bets is that what you mean...
By:
sageform
When: 20 Jan 21 12:31
They must have a registered address and bank account to place bet? Make the "white label" liable if they don't reveal the true account holder.
By:
saddo
When: 20 Jan 21 12:38
I'm sure I read that betfair have access to all individual accounts under a white label.
By:
mrcombustible
When: 20 Jan 21 12:56
There should be CCTV at all Irish racecourse stables. Leopardstown is the only one that has it. Hard to believe the Curragh with its recent revamp did not include CCTV
By:
Storm Alert
When: 20 Jan 21 12:58
workrider - A very fair point Storm , do you think Betfair are protecting those who are making such bets is that what you mean...

Yes. In recent years I think most reputable bookmakers have a business model to provide a ROI for their shareholders by betting on the outcome of sport results fairly. They can get shafted by dishonesty just as punters can. Sure I am not so naive to realise that sometimes they have more information than me. But on the other hand they bet on a huge set of markets and I can specialise on a few bets.

Betfair exchange is a bit different as it acts as a middle man, they put layers and gamblers together. There are rules that I rely on Betfair applying to protect me such as Owners strictly prohibited from laying bets on horses that they own or asking someone else to do so on their behalf (BHA Rule E 92.2). Once you put 'white label' in the mix my confidence in Betfair policing laying of horses is diminished. I mean Betair did'nt seem to do anything about compelling evidence of very unusual laying of Viking Hoard of several occasions.
By:
geoff m
When: 20 Jan 21 13:03
Its comforting to know that Mr Byrnes(according to him) had no knowledge whatsoever of the administration of the sedative or the lay bettingLaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
Ramruma
When: 20 Jan 21 13:13
It is also comforting that the dopers felt they could not rely on a brown envelope to the jockey.
By:
GAZO
When: 20 Jan 21 13:40
did betfair notice suspect betting before the off or was it all after looking into it ?
By:
ProSniper
When: 20 Jan 21 13:48
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/charles-byrnes-plans-to-appeal-six-month-suspension-of-his-licence-1.4462174

He'll nearly win his appeal and his ban will be reduced to 6 days..
By:
carrot1960
When: 20 Jan 21 14:05
The panel laid no blame for the doping at Byrnes door other than the horse wasn't watched 24/7 hence the 1000 Euro fine which was so small it's a wonder it was issued , 1/100 Byrnes wins
By:
punchestown
When: 20 Jan 21 14:13
Once you put 'white label' in the mix my confidence in Betfair policing laying of horses is diminished.
------------------------------

+ 1.
------------------------
In his evidence Byrnes said that Viking Hoard was left unattended on two occasions, including when he and his son went for something to eat. On Tuesday Byrnes indicated he will appeal the findings but wouldn’t comment further. “I’m going to appeal, that’s all,” he said.

The IHRB’s deputy head of security, Declan Buckley, told the panel of three lay bets on Viking Hoard at Galway, Sedgefield and Tramore that were traced through the Betfair exchange to the same account number.

“These lay bets were initially placed with a limited liability company, which placed them in turn with Betfair, on what appeared to be a combined basis with other such bets,” Buckley told the hearing.
Buckley identified an individual “based in a distant part of the world and was said to be associated with match fixing” as being associated with the combined account.
-----
All the above simply not acceptable in this day and age when we know the skullduggery that can happen with people being able to lay their own horses with insider knowledge.
By:
pablo-fanque
When: 20 Jan 21 14:13
if other horses from other yards have tested positive, then in would imply that someone or a team are getting at horses . but if it's just one yard that has been got at , it's a bit odd as you would think the dopers would prefer to be doping odds on or evens money shots from mullins, elliott , nicholls , henderson etc , unless byrnes's yard  are the only ones who leave they horses unattended so are easy to get at
By:
workrider
When: 20 Jan 21 14:14
Thanks for the reply Storm Alert , very valid points also , do you think they protect them because they insert such huge sums into the system and are therefore bigger clients ...
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