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Should he win tomorrow and go to the Festival unbeaten between now and then and lift the Champion Chase?
Sprinter Sacre was awsome,Kauto Star and Dessie enduring and supremely tough and talented.I hope Altior does what NH hopes but will he ever be a "public" horse or achieve recognition as one of the greats? Even if he does what I hope he does I just get the feeling he will not get due recognition unless at some point he wins a KG or at least a Grade 1 away from the 2 mile division.
Sprinter Sacre was awsome,Kauto Star and Dessie enduring and supremely tough and talented.I hope Altior does what NH hopes but will he ever be a "public" horse or achieve recognition as one of the greats? Even if he does what I hope he does I just get the feeling he will not get due recognition unless at some point he wins a KG or at least a Grade 1 away from the 2 mile division.
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He wouldn't be in my top 5 tbh.
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He was in desperate trouble a mile out in the QM last year.
Badsworth Boy won 3 of these by at least 10 lengths under hands and heels. When he has won two more which Moscow Flyer , Master Minded , Sprinter Sacre , Pearlyman and co could not , we will have more of an idea. |
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The rest of the field were in 'desperate trouble' by the time he hit the line which is a little more important than two out.
How many of those mentioned won a Supreme, Arkle and Champion Chase by daylight? You can't really compare him with Desert Orchid because that horse had the temerity to run in handicaps but in recent years he is right up there with any of the non handicap winners. |
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sixtwosix
Moscow Flyer , Master Minded , Sprinter Sacre , Pearlyman are 4 of my 5  and the other is Viking Flagship.Can't really go back any further than that. When Altior was in trouble this year, SS MM MF all would have won the race at that point with their superior cruising speed, VF would just have had a tear up turning in. Altior's finishing kick was brilliant but absolutely nothing was going forward from two out and that had nothing to do with him. |
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He’s very, very good but tomorrow is a serious race and he’ll need to be at his best to win. He hasn’t travelled at all during his last two races so it will be interesting to see how he goes tomorrow.
Sprinter Sacre at his best would be a stone better than anything Altior has done so far. |
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I'd love to see Altior in a KG tbh.
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Pearly man was riddled with problems but when he was on song he was a beast seen him beat 3 previous winners carrying 12.07. Pitty he was so fragile , it’s hard too keep a super star sound ! The easy answer is because of thier class they run in the top races shock in shirt they run a lot faster , jump faster , and it puts a lot more strain on the old joints !
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Might be the kiss a death I suppose and the flat spots becoming more regular could be a concern but whats he got to do ffs? unbeaten over hurdles and fences,slaughtered what now looks a pretty invincible dual champion hurdler and dismissed everything elae thrown at him,best horse for a long time imo,a stone behind sprinter sacre ,really?
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no mention for remittence man he was pretty good,dessie by the way was beaten in two champion chases.moscow flyer won the best two mile chase i have seen and it wasnt at cheltenham.
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I was on Charbel ew so gutted on the day,similar to when Dessie overtook Yahoo in the GC,had Dessie to win but substantially more financial return had Yahoo won.
It is a strange beast in the aftermath of a race when financial gains are outweighed by emotions? |
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3lb in
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It's a shame One Man couldn't have done the KG at xmas and CC at the festival route all through his career
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ribero sums it up pretty well.
The consistent finish he produces, particularly up the Cheltenham hill is in a different league to anything else I can remember. |
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Duffy,you may file this as aftertiming and no problem if you do as understandable.
I suggested that One Man could and would win the Champion Chase,he did the following season.Suggested Politologue could win the KG before he ran in last years TC,backed accordingly.PFN stated after the TC he was an out and out 2 miler and took the easy route at Kempton. Changed his tune following the Champion Chase,John Hales went along with PFN post TC so my speculative 150/1 + for the KG went west.On the day he won the TC I stated about the KG on the live RP coverage.My mate spent a fair bit of time with John at the Festival including a £70 bottle of wine. At no time was the KG mentioned and now look,sometimes us punters have a better percption than trainers or the owners of such horses.I have a prediction that has already been met with ridicule,MIN may be a surprise entry for the KG if all is ok with him and should he win the John Durkan on Sunday. Should he win this his options open up but create a connundrum as to future targets.I no longer have my direct contact in the yard so guessing to a large extent.If he is quoted at any better than 16/1 for next years KG post Sunday,lump on ew. No bookie will quote me for either this year or next,why not? Imo a good season upped in trip and no injuries he will be pretty short next year. |
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Altior is a special horse no question about that, but SS and MM's cruising speed in recent years would have put more distance between them and him at Altior's vulnerable point in the race.
Douvan had begun to do it but then Altior was reprieved when he fell, you can't just look at the finishing kick and assume that whatever may jave gone before that point would simply be overcome. But there needs to be a horse about that can travel throughout and get away.....haven't given up on Footpad being able to do it. |
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He’s a superb horse, of that there can be no doubt.
Like I said earlier though, he’d be a fair bit behind Sprinter Sacre. He might well improve as he goes up in trip. |
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The flat spot he'd hit against Sprinter would have been worse as he'd be under the pump throughout, this in turn would eat in to the reserves he has at the end of his race....if you can't travel throughout against SS you'd be toast IMO.
Go and have a look at Sprinters CC win, watch between the 3rd and 2nd last fence, that's where Altior would be beaten, Sprinter still finishes that race off fullof running but the 3rd and 2nd last is where Altior would be exposed. |
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Agree 100% Duffy.
I’d love to see Altior over two and a half miles. They’d be going that little bit slower which would play right into his strengths. He could be like Kauto and be even better over a trip. |
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I'd make him fav right now if I knew he was running in a KG without even seeing him anywhere near that trip before.
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Take Altior out of that picture then Duffy and what are you left with? (I agree btw)
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Off to bed but hope tomorrow brings you all a good day and profitable.
Perhaps Ultragold can help in this respect at least a frame chance but over these fences has to have a major shout even given doubts about the trip.  |
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Its possible Altior can go on to be talked about as one of the greats.
I think right now hes a very very good horse,the best 2m chaser around and had he stayed hurdling would be the best 2m hurdler around....probably is anyway judging on his supreme beating of B Dair. So that aint bad at this stage of his career. He also has possibly the best finishing ability I have ever seen from a 2m chaser,especially at Cheltenham. He does have a flaw with this flat spot(so did Big Bucks)but it aint stopping this unbeaten run(so far!!) Of course we never know what would have happened had Douvan not fell in the Champion Chase,but I have no doubt in my mind that Altior would have p1ssed past him.......definitely past his best is Douvan, as we saw against UDS. Comparing Altior with the greats?? Only time to do that fairly is when Altior finishes his career, as all the greats have done. FWIW, I would have Sprinter,Badsworth and Remittance ahead of him as 2m chasers, but I may not when hes finished!! |
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Sorry...forgot Pearlyman.
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I think the flat spot is being exaggerated, Its not like Lil' Rockerfella's flat spots.
Everytime he has hit the winning line he has done going away. Maybe he could win over further but he is pretty good over the minimum. Sprinter Sacre was the best but Altior is on par with Viking FLagship, Remittance Man & Moscow Flyer.... |
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Sprinter Sacre, and Master Minded had cruising speed that ive ever seen. Altior I would never want to lay in any race. Heres a question...
Being out of the Derby winner High Chaparral, I believe the flat spots when he quickens again, leaves me to think he wouldnt want very soft ground. |
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Reading back my comment doesnt make alot of sense. It was a long night finding it difficult this morning lol
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Can't believe some of the horses he is being unfavourably compared with. I think people are looking through rose tinted. Remittance Man won one novice hurdle. He was a very good jumper but he wouldn't have had to pace to cope with a horse who could have won a Champion Hurdle. Ditto for Viking Flagship who was a decent battler but he was beaten plenty of times. Pearlyman progressed through handicaps and I think it was debatable as to what Badsworth Boy was beating.
Altior doesn't have to prove he is a great, he already is one. You don't fluke three comfortable wins at the Cheltenham Festival. Has any horse even got close to beating him over hurdles or fences? The fact that he finds a huge amount off the bridle is a big plus, not a negative as some people seem to infer when comparing him with the cruisers. |
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Putting it that way drum, maybe he is a great already.
I just think, to be fair when comparing, we have to wait till hes finished his career. |
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Great replays on RUK
Sire Du Grugy  |
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I'm a massive fan and agree with Differentdrum 100%. It's natural to be drawn to the strong travelling types, Sprinter Sacre took the breath away at times, but as good as he was I'd have Altior over him all day long.
If he's anywhere near his best I think he'll win today against a very good field, probably in his usual style, win another CC and when he's finished be looked on as the best chaser we've seen since Kauto Star. |
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Agree with differendum, 'Altior doesn't have to prove he is a great, he already is one'.
I'm a massive fan too, couldn't resist the 1.76 on here earlier. His opponents today are no mugs to say the least and he will have to be at his best to win. Soft ground is not a problem and whatever happens it will be a true result. |
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Brilliant.
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You wont find any 11/8 for the CC now.
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A true champion hard to pick fault in him
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3lb in hand did it well
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I suspect he wasn't in love with those conditions but the only danger was the crazy jump at the second.
Madness the comment from Millman in the RUK studio to suggest he needed to step up in trip to be a 'true champion'. |
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Indeed.
You wont even get todays price for the Champion Chase now. |
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Everything about him says All-Time Great - his flawless record, his consecutive Festival wins, even his appearance. What a looker he is!
But ... could he give Panto Prince 22 lb, get headed at the last, yet somehow rally to get up on the line? This is the problem with judging today's jumpers by the standards of previous generations. They're no longer asked the horse-racing equivalent of 'but could he do it on a wet Tuesday night in Stoke?' |
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I was lucky enough to be there on that day.
Yes, that's why I mentioned comparing non handicap horses. He might be able to do it but he will never be asked the question. When the comparisons are made to Arkle all that we really have to offer in more recent years are Desert Orchid and Denman, albeit only a couple of times. Kauto Star isn't on the same list. There are just too many opt-outs and trainers are going to use them to prolong the careers of their stars. |