You dont take your Rolls Royce to the corner shop.

When he is done I expect he will be number one.

An absolute weapon.

Apologies for returning to this thread as the horse answered plenty of questions and can take care of himself.Worth noting though that some so called experts still question his status,as predicted/suspected when posting the thread.

Are they right to say he has to do something outside the 2 mile division to prove himself a great? Nobody ever said Usain Bolt had to take on Mo at 5,000m,or did they? Pointless anyway making comparisons at this stage but as it stands I have seen few with the potential he has to scale heights as yet not even considered by connections or at least not voiced.

Could he win the KG? Absolutely,apart from exceptional speed he has stamina,not often you get both in a Chaser.

Won my side bet that Ruby would echo my opening post live on TV!!!

..was there when he fell behind Viking Flagship. Long time ago.

SS in his prime would have cantered all over those eric,although hypothetical views will always differ.

Had a little look back at Badsworth Boy's wins on You Tube. His jumping was very slick and he did win easily but golden era? His only real danger, Bobsline, came down three out. He was also 8 before he registered his first win.

4/5 now, hopefully we can get that on the day and launch on Big Bucks style.


The reality be more like 2/7

Its absolute nonsense to suggest Altior has to step up in distance to become a great.
The 2m division is where you find the fastest horses,and imo the classiest horses.
As said on this thread,we have had a few great 2 milers.
Just nonsense.

Now if connections get bored with being so much better than any other 2 miler around,which it seems he is,then they might give him a go at races like the King George,but they don't NEED to.

tbf duncan aesthetics should always be secondary in marrow judgement,weight should be the definitive measure.

A very high class horse as we all know, travelled well yesterday (no flat spot) and apart from an iffy leap at the 2nd jumped well enough. Looked the winner before the last and although heavy going is less than ideal he beat another that thrives on it. A privilege to watch (I was there).

I think he should go for the KG, i've no doubt about the trip and feel he would win although it appears unlikely he will run. I will back him if he does.

As for where does he stand, in my opinion Sprinter Sacre was probably the best 2 mile chaser of those already mentioned, and although Altior isn't that far behind, he would need to do more to surpass him (and could of course).

Just re-checked ... Morney Wing's average speed was 16.6 secs/furlong. So only 0.7 secs/furlong difference between him and Altior.

Screaming

I have spent (wasted!!!) most of my life analysing race times and standard times and have thought the same as you.

If you use the RP standards the difference at Sandown between the 29f and 15.5f times are 0.6 seconds per furlong. Doesn't sound much until you multiply the 0.6 by 15.5 and then convert that time to distances. On decent ground (which is what the RP standards are trying to represent) that is over 40 lengths - and again the RP standards are trying to compare horses of similar ability with the same weight.

I still persevere as 40 years of toil may produce a winner one day!!!

altior while not being as visually impressive as some i.e travelling like a dream and cruising away , he seems to do just enough and then a little bit more just to stamp his authority on his rivals ,he is probably a good few pounds 7-10 imo  better than his official rating as he has yet to be fully extended .

think he may have been a bit rusty and the ground wernt ideal , ,no flashy  heroics and win by 10 or 15 lengths with this horse , get the job done if something can have a go(nothing has yet !) then i am sure he will pull out more  .more to come if needed !

i usually try to find something to take on a shortie with ,but every so often you find its pointless and costly ,big bucks ,frankel etc, altior why waste time and money opposing them either lump on or move on !

He was very impressive yesterday,especailly considering the ground and the performance by UDS in his ideal conditions.
I think UDS would have beaten any other 2 miler around yesterday.
Altior went past him like he was a 2nd rater,and UDS is far from that.

I'm not sure I'll ever put Altior into the category that many seem to be doing if he stayed at 2 miles, perhaps I'm looking for flaws that aren't there, however I think the points I make are valid (they are to me anyhow) perhaps the reason he never hit his flat spot yesterday is because of the bad ground and they were going slower, yes UDS loves these conditions but perhaps Altior does too, it turned the race into a right old staying test, I didn't think he went past UDS like he was a 2nd rater myself I thought he simply outstayed a once top class horse who is probably a pound or two past his best.

I think the people calling for him to run in the KG which I am very much one simply see the possibility of what he might be capable of stepped up in trip and he could be seen in an even better light than he is at the moment and with it being a much deeper division it would by definition enhance is legacy and make what he did over 2 miles look even better.

Imagine the possibility that he's running over his wrong trip at the moment!!!

Psul Nicholls tried pushing MasterMinded (remember him?) up to 3m and he wasnt able to go with Long Run and Kauto.
Its probably the case that the training skill set required to make a 2m champion is not the same as a gold cup horse.
I would postulate that the rise in the number of  National Hunt superhorses like Altior over the last ten years or so is probably down to money.
In that there are no secrets anymore. Its not hard to discover the best irish pointers, the best young jumpers in france. They will be bought by the richest owners or the biggest training yards and be sent to the trainers with the best resources.
And as these trainers will have a constant source of new talent Altior will only ever be sent over 3m when it looks like he can no longer come up with the goods at two.
Racing is a numbers game at the top end. You train enough of them, the more likely you are to get a good one and the more likely you are to know what to do with the animal.

It is quite remarkable  some of the horses that are being suggested as better than Altior. The trouble is people often remember one or two performances from past horses and forget the rest of their career. The same seems to happen with footballers. Altior is already a great whatever happens from now on. He's won every race since going over hurdles or fences, he's won at Cheltenham festival 3 times easily. He'd have probably have won a champion hurdle the year after the supreme given how easily he dismissed Buveur D'air. Sprinter Sacre on his very best day may have been incredibly hard to beat and is perhaps still the best of recent times but he was nevertheless beaten on a number of occasions. Greatness is also about consistency as well as individual brilliance on any one day. Altior has more to prove before going down as one of the absolute greatest and of course the versatility of horses such as Kauto and Dessie are extra strings to their bow but there is no doubt he is already a great.

What about these horses as better than Altior?
Sizing Europe, Big Zeb, Captain Cee Bee, Forpadydeplasterer, Kalahari King.

Of course they are not in the same league but they all finished in the first 3 in champion chases (Big Zeb twice) when Master Minded was unplaced. Some people have very selective memories and anyone who thinks Master Minded was better than Altior is so far out it's amazing.

I agree that Altior is very good. Not just his best rating but his consistency and adaptability to different courses and racing surfaces. Plenty of past winners of the QM chase have shown brilliance over a short period, Master Minded being the most obvious but like Bristol de Mai, currently having the highest RPR among staying chasers, consistent they are not. My only reason for not whole heartedly endorsing Altior as the best 2 miles in my 60 years of watching thee sport is the lack of credible opposition. Un de Sceaux is a good and consistent chaser but he has been brushed aside in the past by Sprinter Sacre and is now 3 years older. The poor runs by the 2 young pretenders on Saturday emphasises either how good the first 2 are or how poor the rest of the 2 mile brigade are. Regardless of how high his best rating is, Altior is a very long way ahead of the current opposition. Footpad still has an awful lot to prove as his fellow novices from last season have done nothing to suggest they are within a stone of Un De Sceaux, never mind Altior.