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Any thoughts Ryan Moore or Lester Piggott at their peak ?
Any thoughts Ryan Moore or Lester Piggott at their peak ?
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Lester by far the best. Moore the best around now but nowhere near Piggot's level.
Steve Cauthen, Mick Kinane, Johnny Murtagh all better than Moore. Wally Swinburn, Willie Carson about as good. |
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Forgot to add Fallon also.
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remember back in the 70s I was skint but my younger brother who had no interest in racing had some money saved up and I managed to convince him a horse piggot was riding that afternoon would win and I said to my brother put £40on it ( a lot of dough for me or my brother in those days ) any way he wouldn't have it so I said if it gets beat I will give you the money back and if it wins we will go halves on the profit ,which was a win win situation for him so I shot over to my local meccas and put the £40 on at 6/4 ,it was one of Robert armstrongs and the race was on the box, so got back home to watch the race ,lester held the horse up out the back think it was a mile and half race or mile and a quarter ,anyway 4 furlongs out my brother is well anxious and sweating saying this is not going to win saying £40 down the swannee ,but lester is cruising in behind and 2 furlongs out he is in 3rd place 2-3 lenths off the leaders and lester is looking behind for dangers ,I started to put my shoes on ,my brother says what the fook are you doing ! I am going round the bookies to collect I said 1 furlong out lester lets out an inch of rein and race over .....happy days ...........lester legend !
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FFS are we going to have this stupid thread resurrected every time Moore wins in a photo or ,incredibly, rides more than one winner in a day?
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IMHO. This comparison is a non-starter.
Ryan Moore, successful journeyman jockey. Lester Piggott, international legend, ex-convict, tightwad, come-back king, hero to millions, housewives favourite, long fellow, MAESTRO! End of. IMHO |
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moore is a very good jockey and best of the current crop but lester made very few mistakes in the saddle ............although he made a few mistakes in his accounting apparently !
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Lester no contest.
imo Hughes is the best since him. Flat racing should be viewed from start to finish,not the last 100 yards. That was one of the things that set Lester apart. His amazing balance and hands to switch horses off, knowing when to make his run.In a close finish,he would let his mount see the whip so his head would be outstetched,and not in recoil. Royal Academy,Rodrigo at york were marvelous rides. Earlier Ribera ran with a mouth abcess and Lester nursed him home without been able to use his whip. Lester taught the yanks how to ride horses for speed to get the trip. |
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Surely the only second to Lester must be Sir Gordon.
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Muckoy would carry lester on his back
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Fred Archer would have been the one and only jockey that may have been as good as Lester.
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Sadly I've laid a two of his winners today . It could easily have been 3 if kingfisher got a clear run. Bad day at the office for me . Well done to the Ryan followers :(
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dandy confirms it
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Lester by far me , Willie Carson and Pat Eddery both superior to today's best imo.
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That race confirms it as well.
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i'd have loved to see Lester's reaction when after winning a race Alice sticks a microphone in his face and asks him how he feels......He'd have made Ryan look like the great communicator.
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It's hard to take anyone's view seriously when describing Ryan Moore as a journeyman jockey and so you have to hope that's a wind up or if not then be embarrassed for them.
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Richard Hughes ?
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In my defence, Ima, I did say 'successful journeyman jockey'. Yes, I do think Lester Piggott was the better rider but my post was also intended to draw attention to the impact that he had on the public at large.
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Lester was undoubtedly the best jockey I have or will see but nobody gives a mention to Yves St Martin who was top class in his own right - didn't ride over here overly often but his record of big race wins stands up to scrutiny by anyone (considered the equivalent of LP in France in terms of ability
The problem with many people is they are too insular and seem to think that the best jockeys are in their own backyard - our press and tv journalists forever come out with the idiom that our jockeys are the best in the world but when they ride overseas they are often outshone by the "locals" |
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you cant say Piggott for sure
ryan moore is exceptional - the pace of the race is more widely understood now - lets face it Piggott was light years above the other daleks of that era - bit like Tyson of the late 80s |
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I honestly dont know why kinane ever gets mentioned, complete journeyman jockey
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Lester ! The greatest post war British sportsman. Fcuk the bit of bird. Give him his Knighthood .
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Moore by a mile,I'm sure Moore would be more successful if you were allowed butcher your Horse like u were when Lester was riding.
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Lester, The long Fellon
4493 career wins 11 times Champion Jockey 9 Derbys rode classic winners Ireland ,France , Rayan Moore is ok but hes just that .. |
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lester by 2 miles
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I saw Lester ride on a regular basis. The butcher tag is well overstated. Check out Sir Peter O'Sullevan's opinion on the Longfellow. He was as close to Lester as anyone in his formative years.
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Dettori just ridden 50 Royal ascot winners Moore on 30 odd Piggott 119 and that was when there were only 4days
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Life-Lucky 28 Jun 15 10:11
In my defence, Ima, I did say 'successful journeyman jockey'. Yes, I do think Lester Piggott was the better rider but my post was also intended to draw attention to the impact that he had on the public at large. Yes you did but I just personally find "successful journeyman jockey" a bit of an oxymoron, a bit like a shared monopoly and so see it as either one or the other. I suppose it all depends on your definition of a journeyman jockey but I personally think if they are/were all of a former Champion Apprentice Jockey, are a multiple Champion Jockey, regularly ride 100+ winners a season and often nearer 200, are a multiple classic and/or Gr1 winner all over the world, including races like the Derby, Oaks, 1000gns, 2000gns, Ascot GC, Eclipse, King George, Irish 1000gns/2000gns/Oaks/Champion Stakes, Arc, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup, Canadian International, Hong Kong Cup, Japan Cup, Dubai Sheema Classic and about half a dozen Breeders' Cup races, then you are a bit above a journeyman and if that successful, can't really come under that label in my view. The main thing that I see significant with Ryan Moore though it when non-British trainers like Aidan O'Brien are happy to use him, as well as the likes of American trainer Wesley A Ward, Andreas Wohler from Germany, Sei Ishizaka, Noriyuki Hori and Takahisa Tezuka from Japan, H J Brown of South Africa and American trainer Doug Watson in the UAE, trainers he has won big races for up to Gr1/Grade1 level all over the world, including times outside of their own countries too. |
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Well said ima
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Try My Best
Try My Best 16 May 15 13:12 Joined: 13 Aug 06 | Topic/replies: 2,164 | Blogger: Try My Best's blog when they are talking about graham Lee as a potential champion jockey u know there is a serious dearth of quality out there. Spot on. |
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Cheers CheltenhamRoar although like I said earlier, it depends on each person's definition of "journeyman" jockey.
Graham Lee will never be Champion Jockey but it's not due to a lack of riding ability. There was a thread on here asking "what's the point of Graham Lee" when he first switched codes and that poster was made to look a bit silly when he ended the season on 100+ winners, something he has also done in the 3 full seasons he's been ridding on the flat and with a highest total of 159. In 2 of those 3 season his rides have earned over £1m in prize money and they are current on almost £800k this season despite not reaching his half century yet. He's a Gr1 winner on the flat as well as having won around half a dozen group 2 and 3 races too from limited chances at that level, and if John Gosden is happy to have him ride a group winner for him then that's good enough for me. If he had not previously been a NH jockey nobody would bat an eyelid but so was Jim Crowley and as another Gr1 winner on the flat he's not doing too badly either, as were Ryan Moore and a certain Lester Piggott previously jump jockeys too. |
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Ryan is very good (a bit too one dimensional in my opinion - too many of his are waited with out back in last 3-4 and then try to come inside or wide, albeit he rode a good waiting in front ride in a 3 runner race on air pilot at weekend, would like to see that more often) but he would need to repeat his big race successes for another 10 years before coming close to Lester, in fact any of Kinane/Cauthen/Eddery are probably still ahead of Ryan in my eyes at least
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I'm not particularly agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion Gordon63 but if he does that then all it really proves is his longevity rather than his riding ability really.
I personally think someone can be at the top for say a decade as opposed to someone else being so for twice as long and yet be as good as each other or the decade one even be better. I'm not saying that's the case here with Ryan Moore and just that it is possible. |
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FOYLESWAR 16 Jun 15 18:44
....which was a win win situation for him so I shot over to my local meccas and put the £40 on at 6/4......I started to put my shoes on ,my brother says what the fook are you doing.. I always thought you ended up taking your shoes off when taking a trip to Mecca? |