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BOOKMAKER URGES CREATION OF A NEW BODY TO SAVE RING
BOOKMAKER URGES CREATION OF A NEW BODY TO SAVE RING
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Replies: 258
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RR - YOU KEEP SUGGESTING THAT IT WOULD BE IN THE INTERESTS OF RACECOURSES TO PROMOTE GAMBLING WITH OFFSHORE OPERATORS....IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE...RACECOURSES ALREADY HAVE A VERY VESTED INTEREST IN OFF COURSE UK BOOKMAKER PROFITABILITY VIA THE LEVY....FOR OFFSHORE OPERATORS THE LEVY IS VOLUNTARY...WHY WOULD ANYONE PROMOTE AND ENCOURAGE OFFSHORE OPERATORS ON THAT BASIS ?
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Oliasofsunhillow,you dont understand anything about on course or exchange betting for that matter,you are talking pure and utter nonsense and it looks like you dont even realise it.
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If its such a bad deal why are you all hanging out here, surely you should be on course taking all the juicy bookmaker prices ?
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Please talk sense
How can you say on the one hand that prices are better on-course than the machine and on the other hand that several on-course books take bets and then hedge them on here |
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Perhaps Jimeem you would like to explain what I am misunderstanding. The front of the market beats bookmaker prices by 7% during live 10 min betting. If you are on 4% (not unreasonable) or 3% with purple you will beat the bookmaker and not get refused
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THE REASON WE HANG OUT ON HERE IS BECAUSE WE,RE GETTING OFF ,TALKING TO KNOB JOCKEYS LIKE YOU
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I agree Tuttle, although I think there a few bookie propaganda merchants on here
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It would help us all if you stuck to the topic and drop the playground talk, we could have a sensible debate about this
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CASHLESS - IM ONLY A SMALL TIME OPERATOR....BUT AT 1/4 1234...I OFTEN TAKE LUMPS AND ARE COMPLIMENTED ON BETTING FULL EACH WAY TERMS NUMEROUS TIMES.....THE PUNTERS CONTRARY TO SOME OPINIONS DO KNOW THE TIME OF DAY AND CLEARLY FEEL THAT EVEN 1/5 1234 LET ALONE 1/6 ARE RIP OFF TERMS.
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IM ONLY 8 LEAVE ME ALONE OR ILL PHONE ME UNCLE STUART UP ANDTELL IM ABOUT YA
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AS A RULE MUGGSY WHAT AVERAGE IS YOUR PLACE TERMS
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I feel extremely threatened especially in capital letters
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MUGBOOKIE do you think the punter should place his bets where he/she gets the best possible value ?
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WHAT YA FINK IM GONNA DO .... LET YA TYRES DOWN
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RR - YOU KEEP SUGGESTING THAT IT WOULD BE IN THE INTERESTS OF RACECOURSES TO PROMOTE GAMBLING WITH OFFSHORE OPERATORS....IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE...RACECOURSES ALREADY HAVE A VERY VESTED INTEREST IN OFF COURSE UK BOOKMAKER PROFITABILITY VIA THE LEVY....FOR OFFSHORE OPERATORS THE LEVY IS VOLUNTARY...WHY WOULD ANYONE PROMOTE AND ENCOURAGE OFFSHORE OPERATORS ON THAT BASIS ?
Mug- Why does it matter, those going to the courses are a totally different market to the betting shop £ (majority contributor to levy) |
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£100 at 4/1 with course bookmaker returns £500
£100 at 5.2 on exchanges after commission returns £499 [ 5% comm] good luck with that plan olias |
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ADGE ....DONT
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CASHLESS - As stated I try to get the place book to circa 100%....For a small operator I do have some very harem scarem place books...but I genuinely feel that we are responsible for providing a service to racecourse punters....if regulation terms are 1/4 1234 that's what we should ALL bet to.Thats just my honest opinion.
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It would not be 5.2 Adge it would on average be larger than 5.2 and if you are paying 5% comm you need to take stock
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Oliasofsunhillow,you know nothing about exchanges and the way they work. If you can win on betfair then you are going to be paying a winners tax,and as for the purple,there is no customers on it. You can see when betfair crashes what exactly is on the purple. If a horse is 5.2 on betfair,very often its 5.0 on purple,so even with 2% commission you would be worse off. If you are a loser then betfair is ideal for you,nobody knows you are doing your ballcock either,and you will get better prices on all the horses that arent off as well.
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The Bookmaker model is bad for racing, bad for punters but good for bookmakers. If you support racing and more importantly your own pocket support a change
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RR - It matters because off shore operators are literally killing themselves for market share....If somebody bets with you exclusively on horses...there's a very good chance that they will bet the soccer/golf/casino games with you...racecourses actively promoting off shore operators are killing the golden goose..they just dont realise it.
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OLIAS YOUVE GOT EM ON THE RUN BOY
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THANKS MUGGY
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I don't know about that but I notice the bookmakers are ignoring me which is good sign
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GOOD SIGN ....FOR WHAT...AGE CONCERN DO A THREE COURSE DINNER FOR A FIVER YOULL BE LATE
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yes , i'm just off now , cash
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HVE A GOOD UN .........LOOK AFTER BOB FOR UZZZ
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Some stats taken from horseracebase:-
Date (Last x days) Last 300 Days Odds (BFSP) Between 1.01 And 1000 Odds (SP) Between 1.03 And 1001.00 Bets 93784 Wins 9713 P/L (SP) -26007.81 P/L (BFSP) -4991.53 |
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cashless- under agreement followed by imposition - noone would be betting to a 1/6th
Wasnot - your example of betting over broke on place book can only be described as a huge red herring. It's total nonsense. I have no idea why a sensible Bookmaker would make such a claim. We all managed just fine in the past. Difference now is with imposition- noone will be able to undercut you without either offering win only on large field handicaps or simply betting overbroke and we know how many would do that ! |
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Geoff the answer I gave was the reality of betting in the middle of tatts at HQ if you wanted to bet to 1/4 odds 1st 4 in a 16 runner h'cap and wanted to compete on price. I don't mind betting overbroke (a little) on places if the win book makes up for it. If you are amongst bookmakers betting to 1/5th you cannot improve your win margin much, if at all, without severely impacting your turnover.
I am fully aware of the fact that we managed ok before. We've operated full-time on course since 1968 and were punters in the days when the place betting didn't go beyond 1/5 123 regardless of the number of runners. I would dearly love to see the return to 1/4 1234 or win only. However, in the days before exchanges we bet at York on the Ebor and there were literally 10 bookies betting each way, the rest stuck up win only. I hope we don't return to those days. I also don't think the current crop would vote in favour of it. I'm enjoying the debate though. Good to get some of these points out into the open for discussion. |
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mmmuluska
who do you trade as please ? |
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foxy,I.m a punter who pays good money to go racing,why should I or any other punter accept reduced ew terms on a racecourse?
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I agree with wasnot here.if we go gold flag terms at 1/5 1234 and you put an aggresive show up,somebody betting 1/4 1234 is going to struggle and will not be able to compete.in my opinion the large hcaps are harder to bet on ew than the maidens.its why we have to have a ballot BEFORE we agree anything cos we dont want to look split.
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Regit,you will drive punters into the oncourse betting shops,operated by the firms,who lay current prices at proper e.w. terms.
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mmmalushka 02 May 13 11:16
1/5 the odds 16 to 21 runners are'nt standard terms, do you really think your regular punters will be happy to accept ew terms that are worse than shop/online odds? The yellow flag hoisters on this point are no better or no worse than the 1/6 or 1/7 merchants The problem is that standard ew terms are archaic, 1/5th 1234 in 16-21 runners hcaps should be the terms. The bookie wont be overbroke a place hence giving the punter 100 quid ew a 6-1 poke if he wants it. Any clown can go 1/4 1234 , put 114 % on the board and be miles overbroke ew, oh yes thats what the high st and online mob do every day of the week and offer 6 pence each way ffs. |
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mmmalushka i see where your coming from but its just not viable for small books.i understand the argument about the win book and would agree if all the bussines was the same size and you could balance your place books reasonably.i hate turning down cash and very rarely do but £250 ew a 16 shot will always mean im standing the place for way too much.(compared to the book).i saw a bookmaker at wetherby recently who stands horses for a monkey do 2600 quid in cos there was no way out of the places.£5000/150ew and £5000/250 ew the same customer.on a smaller scale betting ew 1/5 123 next to two 1/6 merchants on wetherby on sunday £50 ew the 3rd after the fav fell saw a £200 profit turn into a £200 loss cos the place book was out of sinc.i genuinley want to do what is right but the simple facts are if gambling was starting tomorrow ew terms would be different.i dont know what the answer is to be honest but there has to be a minimum to protect punters who need protecting and gold flag MIGHT be the answer.
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roo, you stick to what you know best, fast picture thieving/tracksider
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Standard ew terms were invented when leo barnett and jackie levy had 130% nailed to the board every race and 160% on the big hcaps.
Times change, terms have to change with the times, whats the point of the high street going 1/4 1 2 3 4, and laying a pony ew . Im a punter and a bookie when i feel like it, so i can see both sides of the fence. |
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Are we back here again ffs
THE PRICES IN THE SHOP AT 1/4 ARE SMALLER THAN THE PRICES IN THE RING AT 1/5TH |