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GEOFF BANKS SAID"IS THE RING HEALTHY? NO.GOING FORWARD IN THE SAME WAY WILL WORSEN THE SITUATION"
MEL ATREED IS KEEN TO SEE THE CREATION OF A NEW ORGANISATION THAT WOULD ACTIVELY CAMPAIGN TO PROMOTE THE RING,I THOUGHT THATS WHY OUR LEADERS AGREED TO A MARKETING FEEU COULDNT WRITE IT
MEL ATREED IS KEEN TO SEE THE CREATION OF A NEW ORGANISATION THAT WOULD ACTIVELY CAMPAIGN TO PROMOTE THE RING,I THOUGHT THATS WHY OUR LEADERS AGREED TO A MARKETING FEEU COULDNT WRITE IT
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unfortunate headline
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I have not read either of the comments in full made by the two gents quoted above. A very important issue raised at a meeting of bookmakers today at Great Yarmouth however concerned the mandate or lack of it that certain Associations have regarding the representation of the majority of bookmakers. It would appear a significant majority of bookmakers want racecourses to enforce the adoption of, for want of a better term, Gold Flag place terms. Rumour has it that those in high places are without the required consultation in all instances ( I gather the Midland BPA for one has canvassed its members ) challenging this initiative even to the point of using their members' money to seek legal advice. This situation is ridiculous in the extreme - whenever are the views of the masses going to be represented properly after due comprehensive consultation ?????
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one thing for sure , this is coming to a head.
interesting to hear there was a bookmakers meeting at Yarmouth. Geoff banks did a survey earlier this month in the south where 85% wanted a minimum standard on each way terms. there isn't a midland bpa so I assume you mean the association of racecourse bookmakers [ ARB ] , the northern bpa this month enclosed a questionnaire with the subscription renewal invitation. |
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on the each way terms.... a standard would be great but only if there is NO "win only" get out clause on bad each way races. this might help the machine agents realise they can hold cash and win instead of draining the ring and throwing it away.
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As a punter interested in the "workings" of the ring,I offered some views on this situation over a year ago,highlighting your problems,that were obvious to those looking in,but as per usual was labelled a bookie basher by the regular contributors to these threads.
I also questioned your new agreements with the courses as being unsatisfactory for many bookmakers,as one size surely doesn't fit all.Now the results can be seen. It was also obvious that circulating money amongst bookmakers would slowly but surely seep away,due to exchange hedging,and that is what has happened.But no point in knocking the exchanges,they are here,and are wanted. Of course bookmakers are a necessary part of the "racing scene".Having seen racing in France and USA ,it is bland in comparison. However,I feel unless you guys have stregth in numbers ,and all sing from the same songsheet,then your future is bleak. |
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UNBIASED,THEN THE FUTURE IS INDEED BLEAK,RINGS NOW DOMINATED BY COMMISSION AGENTS AND EWAY FLIMPERS,ADVERTISING BETFAIR AND **** ON THEIR BROLLYS,AND ALL OVERSEEN BY OUR LEADERS THE ILLUMINATI,WHO IN MOST CASES ARE THE WORST ABUSERS OF EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH TODAYS BETTING RINGS,UNTIL THE IM ALLRIGHT JACK BRIGADE ARE REMOVED AND A MORE REPRESENTATIVE BODY FOR ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS PUT IN PLACE(WITH RENEGOTIATION OF THE CONTRACTS WITH RACECOURSES A MUST)THEN THE RING WILL CONTINUE IN TERMINAL DECLINE WITH THE CURRENT UNSUSTAINABLE SITUATION MEASURED IN MONTHS RATHER THAN YEARS.
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Combined with ever increasing expenses and decreasing turnover
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UNBIASED ..KEEP CONTRIBUTING TO THESE TALKS AMONGST US ,YOUR SENSIBLE AND YOUR REMARKS ARE TAKEN ON BOARD ,NO HARM IN A BIT OF BOOKIE BASHING NOW AND AGAIN ,BUT WE DO TAKE ON BOARD WHEN THE MAJORITY OF US READ -WHAT YOUR SAYING IS CONSTRUCTIVE AND SENSIBLE
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I THOUGHT WHAT GEOFF SAID WAS SENSIBLE IN LINE WITH THE MODERN DAY REALITY OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR OWN BACK YARD
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oncourse bookmakers have the overround
as long as they have punters to bet with them, the maths is still the same as years ago imo hedging on the exchanges dilutes your potential profit over the long term |
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http://steeplechasing.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/bookie-geoff-banks-wants-big-changes-in-the-betting-ring/
The article for those who have not seen it |
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Geoff talks a lot of sense, some quite radical but might be what is needed, what you do need to get rid of for sure are the associations and the dinosaurs who have looked after nothing but the elected members for years.......
Look at the individuals on these so called associations, Representative of the views of the majority of the ring???. Put something in place that is modern and fit for today's purpose not something out of the stone ages...... A figurehead like Geoff required and then several like minded individuals |
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RR - I HAVE POSTED ABOUT THIS MANY TIMES....AS FAR AS MOST BOOKMAKERS ARE CONCERNED, THE ASSOCIATIONS ARE DEAD.....THE POLITICS AND CLIQUENESS OFTEN MEAN THAT NATIONAL REPRESENTATION IS JUST NOT REPRESENTATIVE AT ALL....WHAT IS NEEDED IS INDIVIDUAL COMMITTEES AT INDIVIDUAL RACECOURSES WORKING IN TANDEM WITH MANAGEMENT TO ESTABLISH OPERATING RULES THAT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE MAJORITY. IF,AS AN EXAMPLE 95% OF BOOKMAKERS AT A PARTICULAR TRACK HOLD THE VIEW THAT STANDARD PLACE TERMS SHOULD BE ENFORCED, THEN THAT INDIVIDUAL TRACK SHOULD SEE THAT AS A CLEAR MANDATE TO ALTER CONTRACTS ACCORDINGLY.YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET A CONSENSUS ON ANYTHING, SO, INDIVIDUAL RACECOURSES MUST START IMPOSING THE MAJORITY VIEW....IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE ARE GOING TO GET SOME KIND OF ORDER OUT OF THE CURRENT MADNESS.
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I thought the contracts were for 40 years ?
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Mug - Sounds good, but if you read Demo's post above there seems a spanner in the works, as soon as that is removed away we go........
When the associations are wound up perhaps they can use their reserves to fund a reduction in the badge fee (as it wasn't a deal that 95% of bookmakers agreed to in the first place) until they run out that is...  |
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MUG,WISE WORDS AS ALWAYS,IANP,HENNING BERG THOUGHT HE HAD A 3 YEAR CONTRACT WITH BLACKBURN NOT WORTH THE PAPER THEY ARE WRITTEN ON
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IANP- Is that sarcasm ?
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what do these 40 year contracts specifically state regarding betting conduct and each way terms , please ?
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RR - EPSOM HAVE ENFORCED REGULATION TERMS ON THE HILL AS PART OF A CONTRACT....NOBODY HAS,TO MY KNOWLEDGE, CHALLENGED THIS LEGALLY....IT'S A POSITIVE START....RACECOURSES BEING AWARE OF ISSUES...AND,AT LAST, SEEKING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
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The 40 year contract don't say anything about each way terms, do they ? The Epsom one is annual so can be changed each year if required.
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can anybody tell me why newmarket charge £20 a day for a day liecence for a pitch recently bought ?
is that part of the contracts ? |
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Is that the AGT fee foxy ?
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ian i have spoke to the agt they think thats possible and the girl from newmarket has got it mixed up.
here is how the conversation went you will come to the badge box fill in the forms and pay 6 x your entrance plus a £20 per day admin fee. i said wheres that £20 come from then just to fill a form in ? she says i have no idea but dont worry about it ,as it will be very busy and you will do really well. |
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as the contracts signed do not even mention each way terms [ along with many other things ]why can't a minimum standard be set or changed at any time during the length of the term then don't you think ian.
ho could a challenge be made to something that is not there in the first place |
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IANP - EXACTLY, THINGS ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO CHANGE MASSIVELY OVER THE NEXT 40 YEARS, THESE ONESIZEFITSALL CONTRACTS ARE ALREADY DONE...LINGFIELD ACTUALLY PAYING BOOKIES TO ATTEND!...WE NEED FLEXIBILITY IN THE CONTRACTS THAT REFLECT NECESSARY CHANGES AT INDIVIDUAL RACECOURSES...NOT NATIONAL DEALS THAT ARE COMPLETELY UNREPRESENTATIVE...SURELY THAT MAKES SENSE TO JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY ?
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Mug - They already have, the day after 5% of Racecourse bookmakers signed up to what will see the death of 95% of the rest of the ring, Jockey Club Racecourses signed a deal to put 4G on all their courses by 2014...... meaning any punter can now cut out any of the exchange agents left and bet direct on here at the same speed as their home computer...
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ADGE - IT'S NOT JUST EW TERMS THAT WE NEED INDIVIDUAL CONTRACT FLEXABILITY OVER IS IT...WHAT ABOUT EXCHANGE USE...PITCH RENTING...MULTIPLE PITCHES ETC...ON ALL OF THESE ISSUES, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY VIEW AT INDIVIDUAL TRACKS SHOULD PREVAIL SURELY ?
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Why do we need the 'RING' as it used to be. Why are we trying to hold on to it ?
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The introduction of 4G certainly helps the racecourses to move away from the Ring model if they wanted to...... as many have said would be a sad day.....
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RR - EVEN MORE REASON TO BE ADAPTABLE IN HOW WE OPERATE SURELY ?...TECHNOLOGY HAS NOT BEEN OUR FRIEND...BUT UNFORTUNATELY SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS HAVE ENSURED THAT THE TAX/LEVY/REGULATION REGIMES OF DIFFERENT GAMBLING OPERATORS..NAMELY EXCHANGES..HAVE ALSO WORKED MASSIVELY AGAINST US.
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Lot of weeping and wailing on here, mostly from on course bookmakers I assume. As punters why should we be concerned if 4G liberates the on course betting habits from the men with satchels ?
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Mug- Exactly - you can only do what you can do..... and then take things from there, the external factors aren't going to go away, but give urself a chance with a manageable badge fee.... bet traditional terms
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oliasofsunhillow
what will you do when the exchanges have no layers left ? |
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The non existence of the on course satchels will not effect the existence of the exchange layers, why should it ?
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OliasOfSunhillow - It could be viewed as the best thing for a punter, at the moment connection is slow and unreliable forcing you to the on-course exchange agent (90%), 4g same as home broadband speed more stable and reliable, betfair would fire up in 10 seconds, cut out the middleman on course exchange agent.
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OLIAS - SATCHELS ???????? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU STEPPED ONTO A RACECOURSE ?
RR - HAVE PREVIOUSLY POSTED THAT THE BADGE FEE SHOULD BE LINKED TO GROSS TURNOVER...THE CURRENT ENTRANCE FEE ESCALATOR IS UNSUSTAINABLE FOR JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY IN THE LONG TERM. |
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What the satchels are really saying is that they used to have a pretty good life, lots of mugs would attend the track and the books they could offer meant a good profit if you new your numbers. These days the communication revolution has liberalised punters and the satchels don't like it. they would like some help to some how get back to their previous existence or something akin to it
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Fine, negotiate for lower badge fees but I don't buy into this nostalgic notion that we as punters are worse off because you guys cant cut it anymore.
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The track bookmakers deserve what they get as they make absolutely no attempt to highlight the obvious failings of both exchange and off course betting. They should have launched an advertising campaign ages ago that tells the blissfully unaware public that off course is for micky mouse mug punters,and that anybody who is able to win on betfair pays tax as well as commission.
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