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11 Feb 13
12:49
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Date Joined:
05 Jan 10
Dirk Vennix, from the association, said the vast majority of gamblers in the UK bet "safely and responsibly" and suggested that less 1% of people who had a problem.
"It is wrong to suggest that these machines are the highest contributor to problem gambling," he said.
Now aren't we glad that's all cleared up.
"It is wrong to suggest that these machines are the highest contributor to problem gambling," he said.
Now aren't we glad that's all cleared up.
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Where did ihear that ''Grown ups should have a choice...Oh i remember DIRK VENNIK mouthpiece for The Tobacco Manufacturers’ Association (TMA) one of my aims is allowing adults the freedom of choice
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According to Gamcare's statistics there are more people with problems caused by betting than by FOBTs.
There are also more people with problems caused by internet gambling than FOBTs. In fact the percentage of callers stating they had a problem with machines actually fell over the last 2 years so based on those stats his comments appear to ring true. |
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but FOBTs get the money off the problem gambler as quickly as possible with the minimum cost
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Well sayed DAVE
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I imagine the internet with no staking limits manages it even better. I would hate to see the stats from some online casino products with no max stake or speed of play restrictions. There will be some horror stories.
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problems gamblers losing on sport at least can have an opinion, a sporting chance and enjoy the spectacle over a longer period.
those losing on the FOBTs consistently are the worst of the problem gamblers at £100 a spin every 20 secs. |
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You can't put your dole money online auld son, not like the ready cash going into the bandits
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Well sayed ANAGLOGS
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So is it only a problem if dole money is lost then?
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too true AD, not many doley's have online access and bank accounts
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Banned - these FOBTs and the location are primarily aimed at the jobless people and locations, the stats back this up
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Well sayed, BIG BOSS
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From another thread Clive made a very good point that he believed "that gamcares phone number being plastered all over betting shops" was responsible for the escalating numbers(thousands a month) seeking help from gamcare. I believe him.
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how about stating the percentage rise of callers to gamcare since fobts were introduced banks, just so we can put it into perspective
these are the percentages of callers to gamcare who had problems with fobts 1% decrease banks in 1 year , what about the 7% increase ? 2009/2010 22% 2010/2011 29% 2011/2012 28% |
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the gamcare stickers have to be put on the machines, they have no choice
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"these FOBTs and the location are primarily aimed at the jobless people and locations, the stats back this up"
Why would a business reliant on discretionary spend target poor people? Do you think it might have more to do with population density and footfall. Its not the ABB that say less then 1% of adults are problem gamblers its the Gambling Commission. |
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Well sayed every one except BANNED BANKS and CLIVE92
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82
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the report on Hackney and it's neighbouring boroughs says it all Clive, admit defeat on this one please
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Chelsea girl I have merely repeated statistics held by others. Quite how you can have an issue with that is beyond me.
Such a blinkered approach leads to a poor understanding of issues in my opinion. |
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Chelsea girl I have merely repeated statistics held by others. Quite how you can have an issue with that is beyond me.
Such a blinkered approach leads to a poor understanding of issues in my opinion. what a joker how about stating the percentage rise of callers to gamcare since fobts were introduced banks, just so we can put it into perspective these are the percentages of callers to gamcare who had problems with fobts 1% decrease banks in 1 year , what about the 7% increase ? 2009/2010 22% 2010/2011 29% 2011/2012 28% |
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Banks, I'm pretty sure you know full well, that these stats don't always tell the true story.
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Banks your statistics are an attempt to muddy the waters, along with your 'cohort' Clive.
The clock is ticking towards the demise of these rancid machines, imo. |
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banned and clive supporting the bookies end on a fobts fred, well i never !
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Big Boss, by definition poor people don't have alot of money, surely we can agree on that!
Therefore, even the most basic business understanding would lead you to conclude that a retailer targetting people without much money might not have the most solid of business models. |
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clive , why do more affluent areas not have more betting shops than poorer areas in that case ?
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boot on the other foot, people with money in Kensington generally have a brain bigger than a pea so wouldn't touch the fobts with a barge pole HTH
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I couldn't care less if the machines stay or go however I do think that it could be the thin end of the wedge.
One of the anti gambling campaign groups openly admitted that they thought that internet gambling was a bigger issue than machines however they decided to go for FOBTs first as they were an easier target. It would be naive to think that any success of the FOBT front wouldn't be followed by a similar attack on internet gambling. |
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Banned, agreed, internet casino's and games are no back number, I know a few people bitten by these vermin.
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So are you complaining about targeting poor people or stupid people. Make your mind up?
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Therefore, even the most basic business understanding would lead you to conclude that a retailer targetting people without much money might not have the most solid of business models
clive , he/we is showing that the statement that you made is a load of rubbish when it comes to bookmakers . can't be that difficult to work that out |
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people in £1 million+ houses generally dont play the machines, doesn't mean they are more intelligent than those in the deprived areas, the jobless are trying to turn water into wine which we know is impossible
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just watching the interview on ATR, the bloke has described a bookmaker shop as a hub like a pub, where people socialise together....I doubt he's even been in a bookmakers for 10 years!
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imo far more than 1% have an issue with gambling - you just need to spend an afternoon in any high street bookies and watch the fookin' leatherin' those FOBTs take - armour platin' for these boys cumin next, I'm tellin ye......!!
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no skill in these machines, one very large button 2ft x 2ft across with the word SPIN U MUG on it underneath a roulette wheel screen covered in bulletproof glass
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The fact is yorkie only a very small number of people play the machines. Based on an independent survey carried out in Dec only 1% of people said they'd played FOBTs in the last 4 weeks. Of that small number of people, you then have to accept that not all of them are swivel eyed addicts punting their kid's milk money on the next number being red.
Affluent people are more likely to have smartphones, laptops etc.. and therefore they don't need to go to bookies. Why go to a bookies and be restricted to £100/£500 when as banned banks has pointed out you can play unlimited stakes and prize games online. LBOs need footfall, hence why they're on high streets by pubs, supermarkets etc.. If they wanted to target the poor they'd put them on housing estates or the ground floor of high rise council buildings. But as I said why would you target people who don't have alot of money? |
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Is it not the case that FOBT losses are simply far more visible hence why they have been targetted by anti gambling groups?
There is as much lost over the counter as there is on machines. There is way more lost online than on machines. Bet365 on their own make about half as much as all the machines put together. I think they have been carefully targetted by the anti gambling groups as a way in to the wider gambling sector as they know that they will get other punters support who are happy to look down on machine players. Once they get their teeth into the industry online will surely be in their sights. |
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that's just not my experience Clive82 - on most occasions I go into a bookies the FOBTs are the only things been bet on - no fooker is inerested in the racing or anything else outside these blasted machines.
your independent survey results imo are utter sh*te and not worth the paper their written on. how many people are gonna admit to this problem...... end of. |
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I am not an apologist for bookmakers,and my username was tacked onto me for my ability to be able to see both sides of any given situation,due to my law training.
Every time there is a thread from the attention seeker AD,who trawls the internet for anything to do with FOBTs,and feels the constant necessity to put these snippets onto the racing forum,there is much jumping onto this bandwagon on this forum. There are numerous references to the "speed of the spin" on roulette,as if it is a major issue that the wheel only has a few turns.It appears posters would like the wheel to spin at least 20 or more times so that players may play for a longer duration. Do these same posters worry that a dog race can be over in less than 30 secs,as opposed to 4 mins plus for most NH races.Is that too quick for their liking. I can remember feeding fruit machines years ago,watching the dials revolve,and the spin was over in a few seconds.What's new! Posters professing to know all the whys and wherefores of machine players,when all they are doing is making assumptions,based on the fact that the FOBTs produce high profits. Many players obviously enjoy playing on them,whether it be blackjack,fruits,roulette,or any other game. I have been challenged on several of these threads of AD,when responding,to produce figures.Well the answer to that is quite simple,as I am not the one bleating about how bad they are.It is therefore up to the complainers to put up figures concerning problem gamblers from all forms of gambling,so that we can all see whether ,or not,there is a problem,and make the relevant comparisons. Until seeing such figures I have an open view. I have lost count of how many times I had to lend friends money,because they had blown their wages on ---- |