black caviars brother to race at royal ascot

Black Caviar the face of ascot 2013.

BLACK Caviar's comeback to racing begins at Flemington on Saturday - and it is not only her opponents that are chasing the mighty mare.

Race club officials in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide covet Black Caviar competing on their racetracks in coming weeks.

And after Black Caviar's famous win in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot last year, the English want to see more of the world's greatest sprinter.

Royal Ascot's Nick Smith is making the trip Down Under this week to watch Black Caviar's long-awaited return in the Group 1 $500,000 Black Caviar Lightning Stakes (1000m) and is carrying with him an invitation to bring the sport's biggest crowd-puller back to England in June.

"I have always consciously left the question of 2013 alone until now and intend to keep it that way until after the Lightning Stakes," Smith said.

"But I have been talking to (owners) Neil Werrett, Gary Wilkie and the team pretty regularly on and off since last June, and we've had dinner at home in London over the Olympics and over the Spring Carnival in Melbourne.

"I have been asked to the after-party (following the Lightning Stakes) so depending on how things have gone in the race, I'm sure we'll discuss Royal Ascot 2013.

"We were lucky that Black Caviar came last year and won and most people in the UK would say the anticipation and drama of that race was the highlight of Royal Ascot.

"We certainly took that view and have used her as the key image for our Royal Ascot marketing campaign."

In fact, Black Caviar features on the front cover and regularly throughout the Royal Ascot 2013 brochure, which the club uses to promote the famous race carnival.

Owner Neil Werrett said he was surprised to learn that Black Caviar is the pin-up horse for Royal Ascot this year.

"She is in all Royal Ascot's advertising campaigns - we are stunned," Werrett said.

"Frankel appears a little bit through the brochure but most of it is Black Caviar. Even in England last year, the press coverage leading into Royal Ascot was mainly about Black Caviar, not Frankel. The English just loved her."

Werrett said a return to England this year has not yet been discussed by Black Caviar's owners or trainer Peter Moody.

"I would say going back to Royal Ascot is very, very doubtful," Werrett said.

"We haven't even thought about it, we are just focusing on the Lightning. But I can say that everyone at Royal Ascot really looked after us last year, we had an extraordinary time, so we'll see what happens."

Smith said he realises the importance of the Lightning Stakes - Black Caviar's first start for eight months - and understands the mare's owners aren't thinking beyond Saturday's comeback race.

"We would love to have Black Caviar back, but the conversation has to wait until the appropriate moment," he said.

Smith is hopeful of persuading connections to return for an extended English campaign including three Group 1s.

"Perhaps they'd go for the King's Stand this year and then the double (Diamond Jubilee Stakes) maybe, and there's the Darley July Cup at Newmarket, too," Werrett said.

will take him on in the KingStand...this fella almost got the job done in the Cox Plate.

TRAINER Peter Moody has told Black Caviar's rivals in Saturday's Black Caviar Lightning the one thing they don't want to hear: "I can't find a chink in her armour".

The queen of the turf had her final hitout at Caulfield yesterday, cruising over 800m in 50.8sec (last 600m in 36.65sec) to convince Moody she is ripe to notch her 23rd consecutive win.

"She is back, relaxed and scorching the turf, which is the whole reason she is running again," he said.

Moody said Black Caviar's condition and frame of mind were the equal of her peak form period, which was when she put together three wins in the spring of 2011.

"She is now like she was when she was winning races 15, 16 and 17 (including a romp in the Patinack Farm Classic)," he said.

"In the UK she was swishing her tail and getting cranky because she had come to the end of her campaign after 12 months of racing. But now she's back."


Black Caviar was nowhere near her best at Royal Ascot in England in June, having lost considerable condition after a long campaign.
She returned home, put on weight, worked on the water-walker and is now nearing peak condition after six weeks of trackwork, a jumpout and an exhibition gallop.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/peter-moody-whispers-the-words-black-caviar-cherry-ripe-to-put-fright-into-opposition-trainers/story-fn67siys-1226576519975

I watched ALL TOO SOON win his race at Caulfield last Saturday.

However - That was over 7 Furlongs (1400 metres) - where he beat the established Mile and a Quarter (2000 mtrs)/Mile and a half(2400mtrs) Mawingo  by half a length -

education for you, all too hard ran 2nd 2000m ( 10f ) in the most prestige race in australia as a in-mature 3yr old...i suggest you look for another excuse as the trainer of mawingo stated before the race his horse was ready for a first up win,  Also mawingo had not won beyond 2000m and recently won 2 trial before 2nd to all too hard over 900m.

also check your records of the The Queen Anne stakes you will see a winner or 2 from australia.

2000m horses running in the ik have a near perfect record in group races, its not all about sprinters down here

Black Caviar had not run for 6 weeks before falling over the line at Royal Ascot and yet her trainer uses coming to the end of a campaign as an excuse..........I'd have given it more credibility if he had said the gap between races had been too long.

And what is it with you megsy that as soon as any ex-Aussie horse comes over here and wins that your default setting is that it must have beaten our best ones? Remind me again how Haradasun got in in the Lockinge that year, was it just the 5 of the 11 runners that finished ahead of him? All of Creachadoir, Phoenix Tower, Tariq, Cesare (promoted handicapper) and Arabian Gleam finished ahead of him that day, with him marginally turning around the form with Cesare and also reversing with Tariq and Arabian Gleam but wasn't re-opposed by the first two. Obviously the QA is for 4YOs and older so Haradasun wouldn't have been facing the classic generation milers like Henrythenavigator, Raven's Pass that between them won the 2000gns, SJP for 3YOs and then the Sussex Stakes, Goodwood Mile and Breeders' Cup Mile which were al races open to Haradasun, or he didn't face 3YO fillies like Natagora, Spacious, Nahoodh or Lush Lashes.

Was that also not the race or am I confusing it with another where an O'Brien runners moved off the rail to let Haradasun up the inside and then moved back over again to block off any other runner and that was when the team tactics issue was raised? Oh and presumably if the trainer could get the horse to win a Gr1 here then he does actually know how to train after all and improved the horse if your previous arguments regarding So You think are anything to go by.

Keep picking those cherries eh?

Yep....and it's still "you're" too, as in you are.

sadly onlooker you have the assumption i am,( agreesive)...further from the truth

i will throw another in for you "starcraft" 2nd in australia's prestige race over 2000m winner from 1400-2000m in australia, won the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes grp1 and the Netjets Prix du Moulin de Longchamp grp1

megsy - ex-Australian MENTAL won well at Meydan, Dubai, yesterday afternoon.

First time on the Tapeta (Artificial Surface) - and in rear for most of the race -

But the pacesetters went 46.47. for the first 800 metres - and, obviously could not keep that up, and fell away quickly -
- leaving Mental to come through smoothly and beat South African Kavanagh, and Krypton Factor (who was a 2 length 6th to Black Caviar at Ascot - and won last year's Golden Shaheen, in Dubai) by a length, and three-quarters.

Aren't you sick of those cherries yet megsy?

Please tell us how many times Starcraft won in UK/Europe? Oh and it was so obvious that the horse only won due to UK based trainers improving him just as it has laughingly been suggested that donkeys from here that go and win Gr1s over there have been improved by the Aussie trainers or that O'Brien can't train and only Cumming(s) can with respects to So You Think.

I'll save you the trouble of looking up the horse's record and inform you that it was beaten 3rd 2L behind Valixir in the Queen Anne and even behind a real strong pulling headbanger like Rakti in 2nd and ½L ahead of the Gr3 winner Mac Love. The was 6th of 7 and beaten 11L in the Eclipse in a decent Gr1 behind horses like Oratorio and Motivator, although Motivator would be a long way short or a top class Derby winner.

Add to that Starcraft won a 6 runner QEII from the 3YO Dubawi that flopped in the 2000gns and Derby and having run down the centre of the course in the wrong group when they split into two lots, then had to track over to the near side to still only be beaten ¾L, whilst Starcraft ran up the inside rail all the way and even Dubawi's 6YO and 100/1 pacemaker beat the other 3 home, 2 of which were poor, including O'Bien's 9/1 representative in only a 6 runner race so that told you enough about that ones chances but they were still beaten by the previously mentioned Rakti pulling too hard and failing to settle.

you've got him rattled megsy, he's pulling rubbish out of his ass left, right and centre

soon he will be telling us a horse was a 2 time sprinter of the year award winner, only to realize those 2 years were actually the same season, clueless springs to mind

you wanna talk about picking cherries, really? you ****g idiot, you couldn't of said anything else to make you look any more stupid

ima_mazed66 • February 15, 2013 3:57 AM GMT
Oh and talk about manipulating things, since when has the miler Moonlight Cloud been the best sprinter in Europe?

Yes Moonlight Cloud won 2 Gr1s after that, at 6½f which some results services have rounded up to 7f but either way  is a bit of a hybrid distance and was on ground described as Very Soft, which would have suited her as a miler as opposed to the sprinters in behind and the other Gr1 race she won at a mile was a 4 runner affair where she beat a 10f horse by a head that has only ever won a handicap at a mile and was beaten 6L by Frankel at a mile and 7L by him at 10f on Frankel's first try at the trip. In between Moonlight Cloud was beaten 1¾L at a mile by Excelebration and was well behind that horse again in the Breeders' Cup, so there is plenty of associated form to suggest Frankel would have demolished Black Caviar at any trip you chose.

rounded it up to 7f, which you've then rounded it up to a mile to suit your argument, completely dispensing the fact that it wasn't a mile, it was 6 1/2f, I want you to hobble on outside with your wooden leg and your greased up artificial hip, jump on a bike, then I want you to ride that bike 6 1/2f, then I want you to ride it again for a mile, then tell me the difference between 6 1/2f and a mile, I don't care if it's raining or snowing (these are the only options given where you reside), 6 1/2f is never a mile, not now, not ever.

you want to talk about the soft ground and how it would suit Moonlight Cloud over any sprinter, best you talk about Black Caviar in that same sentence or you are doing exactly what you have pulled megsy up for, cherry picking.

I noticed you took some time off, you surely weren't spending your time off at any sort of education facility because you're still as stupid as you ever were

mugboy66, I never claimed to not know the age of classics and I never said Black Caviar would be inconvenienced at Ascot, you've got the wrong guy pal, the more you write the stupider you look

What language is couldn't "of" please? And then you have the cheek to call others idiots and go on about their education......your lack of self awareness is hilarious.

I made several points regarding Scenic Blast when the Aussies on here were claiming theirs are the best sprinters in the world when they cherry pick the wins and ignore the losses, so claimed Scenic Blast the best sprinter in the world of that particular time. All of my responding points were valid other than instead of being the horse was one time Australian Champion Sprinter, I said it was twice although it was also Australian Champion Racehorse of the (same) Year and you've had a hard on over that every since. I suspect that's mainly because you can't counter any of the numerous other valid points I was making at the same time, for example the Aussie horses tend to do better over here at 5f, such as Scenic Blast winning the King's Stand by ¾L from Fleeting Spirit but was then beaten 6¾L by the same horse at 6f when 10th of 13 or that after that Scenic Blast was next beaten in Tokyo, Hong Kong and USA and never won again in 12 starts after Ascot or that Fleeting Spirit won the Cartier Award for Top Sprinter that season but because you can't handle the facts as opposed to cherry picking, you have to continuously clutch hold of straws and quibble over a minor mistake in the finer detail. Once, twice or however many times Scenic Blast was Champion Aussie Sprinter or Aussie Champion Racehorse of the Year, it's still a bit of a stretch to claim he was the best sprinter in the world at that time. So in actual fact I wasn't even making a judgement about Aussie racing per se and more about how it stands up globally by comparison to elsewhere.

And of course I use the Racing Post site to check details, as if I was to ask you regarding Black Caviar in her first Gr1 win, which horses were 2nd and 3rd, what was the winning distance and winning time are you really trying to tell me you would know all of that off the top of your head without looking it up? I very much doubt it mate! Oh and if I were to say Luke Nolen (good job I spelt his name right eh or else you would clutch onto that too) seemingly gets on well with Black Caviar and from the day he won her first Gr1 on her they have looked the perfect partnership, that he seems to have a quiet and forgiving riding style and then 101 other valid and accurate points, you would choose to focus on the one discrepancy to clutch at straws as if that renders everything else I've said redundant, which is pretty pathetic really.

Oh and on the subject of education both academically and your racing one, you clearly have trouble with the English language as I haven't rounded up anything to a mile regarding Moonlight Cloud and said her next race after Ascot was 6½f which some results services have rounded up to 7f and her next after that was at a mile. You've also totally missed the point about the ground too in that if sprinters (of which Moonlight Cloud isn't one anyway) are racing at 6½f to 7f on very soft ground then that is more likely to blunt their speed and stretch their stamina and suit a 7f to a mile horse, which Moonlight Cloud is. Black Caviar ran on ground at Ascot described officially as Good but did so against sprinters anyway other than the likes of Moonlight Cloud, so there wasn't any particular emphasis on stamina to disadvantage Black Caviar.

Oh and just changing your user name and then denying what you have previously said isn't fooling anyone when you can still clearly be identified by little nuances in your posting style and even your newer user name is a bit of a give away too.

So if there's anything else written in basic English that you don't understand like how I never said 6½f is rounded up to/equal to a mile (just because you probably round up your 2½ incher to 4 inches) then let me know and I'll break it down into bite size pieces for you to try to take in a little easier.

I don't think too many are denying Black Caviar is a decent horse but at Ascot she beat mostly millers and hybrid distance horses like Moonlight Cloud and Restiadargent and then promoted handicappers from the UK, with her only serious rival Society Rock losing at least 6L on her and 12L on the field after the jockey was shouting no to the starter who let them go as the horse was sat down in the stalls. Yet he was still only beaten 2L by her despite the jockey having little choice but to ride the horse full race after missing the break instead of taking up a position, meaning it had little left at the finish.

Nobody knows if any injury occurred during the race to have affected her and if there was one it could have happened post race or even the next day and the fact the jockey didn't dismount and rode up and down the track again in a impromptu victory parade seems to suggest there wasn't too much wrong with her and certainly not enough for him to be concerned about it anyway.

As for her splits well she only has one race to judge on outside of Australia where at home for her I would imagine the ground would be decent and on flat courses, whereas at Ascot it's slightly up hill at the start and finish and is a stiff 6f where she looked to be tying up even before the jockey eased her right at the death, which was only for a stride or two and might have been the reason why he did anyway.

Her final 4f times on the 5th day on Good ground after the rain had stopped leading up to the meeting were 11.66, 11.40, 10.84 and 13.70 compared to Frankel's final 4f on the opening day at a mile on ground described as being Good to Soft with him eased down in the final furlong due to the 11L winning margin being 11.26, 10.58, 11.04 and 14.01 with the 10.84 being her fastest furlong between the 2f-1f poles and Frankel's fastest being the 10.58 between the 5f-6f poles.

onlooker, thanks for that information, yes mental was a very good horse in australia, nothing too special about 20lbs inferior to black caviar, he had previously won at 6,7 and a mile.
he's last win was in the patinack classic group 1 he's first at that level.
probably 10 lengths inferior to BC and Krypton Factor was placed behind mental which also tells you the real BC didnt come to race at royal ascot.

cheers

why such vitriol?

it detracts from rather than enhances the validity of your views, imo.

how much do you think black caviar is tainted by the cloud hanging over her trainer's stable, or the question marks

i read an open letter online, written by an australian, which was very scathing

http://lucky88.com.au/

Please show me megsy where I have said Moonlight Cloud was a "specialised" miler as you used that word and not me.

I've said she was a miler seeing as that's the trip she seems to have settled on for her last 3 races, the last of those being the Breeders's Cup Mile (the clue is in the race title) but certainly not a sprinter and even mentioned the hybrid distance in reference to 7f. Plus to quote myself even said regarding her in my post above with respects to the sprinters that it would "blunt their speed and stretch their stamina and suit a 7f to a mile horse, which Moonlight Cloud is" but I can see you are still having trouble retaining information even when it's right there on a screen in front of your eyes. Regardless though, since when do horses have to be multiple winners at a distance for it to be considered their distance? If a horse runs half a dozen times at a mile in it's full career and wins only one is it not a mile horse? Moonlight Cloud has run 4 times at a mile and her second start as a 3YO was at a mile too in the 1,000gns......and if you don't want people commenting on what you say on a public forum then take it private and don't post public. It's not rocket science.

You don't know anything about what I did or didn't say regarding Mooney Valley once again due to your difficulty retaining information and I bet even your wellies have to be labelled so as you know which foot to put them on. The only times I've ever said anything about Mooney Valley was when Aussies asked why didn't our sprinters chance coming over for Aussie sprint races seeing as the prize money is high. So I said we have our season here starting in March to ending in November where our sprinters will run in our Gr1 sprints or those in Ireland or France and so any Aussie sprints falling outside of those dates like the Mooney Valley ones in January are in our winter time before our flat season starts or in October, where not only is it then end of our season but our top sprinters will be aimed at the Prix de l'Abbaye and Breeders' Cup. Then there was the laughably claim that Black Caviar would be at a disadvantage at Ascot going around a bend despite it being a straight race and I pointed that out, as well as saying she had won going around a bend numerous times anyway such as at Mooney Valley, so your retaining information problems are letting you down again, where because of it you continuously wrongly attribute things to me that I haven't actually said and me supposedly rounding up 6½f to a mile and claiming Moonlight Cloud as a specialised miler are classic examples of you doing this yet again.

Add to that I also didn't say UK sprinters are disadvantaged by travelling to Australia (I'm surprised you even remember your own name with your retaining information problems) and what I actually said was if any came over for your sprints outside of our season then it will be in our winter months when often it snows here and trainers aren't able to work their horses on turf and would be going over and racing either far earlier in the year at the beginning and would probably have to do so without a recent previous run, or far later in the year around October/November time off the back of a long season where they have probably been on the go since March/April and that's the reason why they would be disadvantaged. I also said if they were to go over and back again 3-4 times for certain races then the travelling would be enough of a factor to make it more sensible to transfer the horse to an Aussie trainer for good and keep the horse over there....but that translates in the empty head of megsy land as something totally different to you somehow.

I see you are still burying your head in the sand too and ignoring things you don't like and can't answer in the hope that nobody will notice, such as nobody can say where her convenient injury occurred anyway or why the jockey didn't dismount and even rode her back up and down they track with supposedly torn muscles. Funny too how her vet found nothing wrong with her with scans and x-rays, so they let the chiropractor have a go instead.....and is she scanned and x-rayed after every race?

And if that pawn shop line was your p1ss poor attempt at humour, it was about as funny as spotting a floating turd in a jacuzzi and of course it's beyond your comprehension that I was here all the time but just choosing not to post because that would take a bit of thinking on your part wouldn't it?

Yes Second Coming, she's won 22 races and that makes her exceptional on that count alone but that was against predominately Aussie rivals and the one time she came over here she fell over the line looking punch drunk and treading water. Most of those other Aussie horses she has beaten that you have named may well have won the odd race outside of Australia but they were well spanked in an awful lot more (hence yours and Megsy's cherry picking) and most wins were a lot narrower than the absolute hidings they got when they were well beaten and yet we have deluded Aussies claiming their sprinters are the best in the world.

The ground at Ascot was worse on the opening day you fcking d1ckhead and it had been raining in the days leading up to Ascot so Frankel got the worst of the ground at Good to Soft compared to Black Caviar who raced on Good ground after the rainy spell had ceased. That's the very reason they give ground conditions and even Turftrax had the ground on day one listed as Good to Soft but by day 5 they had it as only Good to Soft on the round course only which is where they finish on the far side (just as Frankel did despite running on the straight course) but Good on the straight course and near rail which Black Caviar ran up....The fact Society Rock ran well at Ascot all things considered despite having a poor record on soft or heavy goes to show the ground wasn't that bad, especially when you consider he came out next time and was beaten 6L in 3rd on Heavy, then won a Gr1 on Firm and was then beaten 5th on Soft the time after that where horses behind him previously on Firm reversed the form.

Yes I did say nobody knows when her convenient injury occurred, which is why I'm not making any ludicrous claims on that but it hasn't seemed to bother you deluded Aussies from doing so and if the so called best sprinter in the world struggled to beat a miler when falling over the line and that miler has been well beaten twice since then, the sprinting division world wide must be totally sh1t then.

Oh and you've totally missed the point (no surprise there then) about the difference between Society Rock being left 12L at the start when sat down in the stalls as the gates opened and having to be ridden all the way just to try to make a race of it, compared to Ortensia being run off her feet in the early stages and struggling to beat handicappers that were coming back to her at the finish and it's not "according to me" that Society Rock finished only 2L behind Black Caviar despite giving her 6L start, it's there in the record books or online records as a fact.....Oh and remind me again what happened to Ortensia when she finished 12th of 13 and 9½L behind Society Rock? Oh yeah, she had a convenient injury too eh?

Maybe you need to look up what cherry picking means eh?

^^As you can see I have failed to correctly construct a 16 word sentance