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These 210 comments are related to the topic:
premium charges
premium charges
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Replies: 210
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freddie have a little mercy for my cracked lip
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Not necessarily a fifth, but the rate you pay in PC, if you had a secondary system that profited by the same as the % you pay in PC....why wouldnt you be doing it regardless of tax?
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dusty, you dont have to make a profit with the secondary, its all about clocking the commission up, if 30% of fav's win for example, then that would qualify for the system
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but surely you would have had have absolutely massive turnover....in doing so taking crazy risks something along the way might go wrong (which invariably with betting it will at some point)
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there is always risk dusty, it isn't a pot of gold, you need a bit of skill
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funk that mate, good luck
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what i never got my head round is why dont 60% pc payers who keep good records put their estimated PC payment for the next week as a massive win bet as their last bet of the week ?
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i suppose they would pay 60% of the winnings of that bet and only reduce the PC by 60% if it got beat lol
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it is true the higher the rate the more likely it would be worthy of doing that imo (since you are getting much better odds on that final bet)
but to get to that rate it is likely you are (indeed ahem cough, shall we say naughty) or genuine but very efficient(which in the long run is the best way as even losing on that big bet only returns a % relief of the rate you pay)....sort of plays aginst everything if you then throw it all down on a win/lose bet. |
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Average traded per race per year. But this is from data which I had used for some other purpose, so not even sure what I changed or removed from the raw data. Not at all reliable.
year volume 2008 856091 2009 909270 2010 850022 2011 877421 2012 906391 Must be nice to find out how much the liquidity has increased/decreased over the years. I am sure someone in here would have all the data to find this out |
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That confirms what I thought that the average matched per race is much the same as it was when I started 6 years ago,comfortably before PC. The only caveat is that doesn't show how much is " trading money ". I wonder if there are more pure tradears around in which case BF`s take in commission IS going down.
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For every person that is reducing bets due to the pc there are probably five people increasing their churn to make sure they dont pay the pc.
Most of the new churn money goes into the bigger markets where there is less slippage. The main issue with the PC is that it kills the dream of being a winner for those unwilling to churn. |
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wee eck 30 Jan 13 13:29
dustybin. until book put me right I would have bet plenty that all 40-60% premium charge payers had a decided advantage nearly akin to cheating. I reiterate my earlier statement that anyone playing on here strictly on merit paying 40-60% premium charges is imo certifiable. __________ i am on 40% like most others on it 90% inrunning with no fast pics been to exchange shops around a dozen times in 10 years what would you suggest this certifiable does do i pack it in ? |
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If you have lifetime profits of £250k - do you automatically pay higher rate Premium Charge irrespective of the amount of commission/implied commission paid over the lifetime of your account?
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henke, to bet in running from home using RUK and ATR and to be a 40%
premium charge payer you truly are a supreme judge, I bow at your feet. |
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imfao, no, only pay when you reach the criteria.
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lmfao 30 Jan 13 16:26
If you have lifetime profits of £250k - do you automatically pay higher rate Premium Charge irrespective of the amount of commission/implied commission paid over the lifetime of your account? no it is based on what % commision you have paid in the lifetime |
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That confirms what I thought that the average matched per race is much the same as it was when I started 6 years ago,comfortably before PC. The only caveat is that doesn't show how much is " trading money ". I wonder if there are more pure tradears around in which case BF`s take in commission IS going down.
I think the ratio of trading money to punting money is a lot greater thesedays, the reason for such volatile markets and accentuated price swings possibly |
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thnks henke- i read the condition and didnt think that was clear:
so Are betfair uplifting the £250k higher rate level every year- to reflect a longer betting timespan? when was it introduced? |
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it's based on commission paid , which ( i think ) has to be below 20% of profits and have had bets in over about 250 markets to qualify .
so £1000 profit , £250 commission paid = no premium charge £1000 profit , £100 commission paid = £100 premium charge to get commission upto 20% which would be £200 once you are over £250,000 in profit your % on pc goes up . i think |
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should the £250k limit not go up each year by 12% so to keep the maths right
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rcing its not based on commission paid. its based on commission generated, which can be as much as half your commission paid. In my case, my commission paid is about 7%, but my commission generated is only 3.6%. so instead of paying 40% PC based on commission paid, i have to pay 60% based on my commission generated. Confusing and unfair. Like many others I don't have any advantages like fast pics, its purely down to greening up. I mostly use purple now, but paying 60% here when I only clear about 50 a week is a bit bizarre.
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sorry hazel , i forgot about generated commission
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hazel,how are you finding it on purple & how long have you been over there ? cos can't put up with this 50% mugging every week.
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Anybody paying 60% PC needs the bumps on their heads examining,imo.
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Book. I have been there since 60% started. Little at first but now my main avenue for horse racing. In running not good, nor is it great hours before a race. But in last 5 or 10 minutes before the off it is fine for me. Prices match betfair prices. Bots probably keep them together. I am not a big player. I bet in up to £100 size. Plenty of liquidity for that.
My strategy is to usually green out. bit scarry if not completed before the off., but i can usually trade out small amounts inrunning. but not advised. Sometimes I have to let bets ride which is not to my liking as i am very risk adverse. perhaps i should cut loses before the off more than i do. if you are a straight bettor, then I can't see any problem in giving it a go. Tried football, but I find it too slow. |
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it sounds like your similar to me in your workings,my best earners are rugby,boxing & motor racing & the purple wont be any good for that imo,might do the afternoon horses though,got to give it a chance,cos this pc is getting to be unworkable,good luck.
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Anybody paying 60% PC needs the bumps on their heads examining,imo
What do you mean? I thought you had to |
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Milo,
Many people are avoiding paying the PC. It would hardly be prudent for me to tell you how it is done,would it. |
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Oh, Ok, I get it now.
Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more |
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middleman
"The whole concept of an exchange is the fact YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WIN whereas bookies dont allow you to win long term but Betfair have gone down the same route thus killing the dream...." Absolutely right, totally agree with that, I know this PC only affects a small number but everyone likes to dream. It was a disaster and an own goal from betfair to screw the big players so they can get another revenue stream. As betfair has got bigger and bigger it has also got so distant from the exciting concept it was in the beginning. Floated at a bad time and over-valued and now run by non-punters and p1ssed off a lot of customers. And the example in the first post on here is a good example of 'Screw You !' "gross win of £491 & have to give betunfair £223,this would be funny if it wasnt such a disgrace." And why has betfair become disliked by its own customers......? |
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the threat of going onto pc has helped me as i was once a chaser but because i know in the long run i will pay the pc if i have losers i just see this as a set back towards reaching said target.so now all the commission i use to pay has gone and i take very small risks now.i believe this means betfair are losing out to me now
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Why dont Betfair allow the first £500 gross winnings per week to be free of premium charge ?
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that's a decent idea imo
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that 999 winner will help a few
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This will never affect me, but if I was earning £20,000 per month, I would be mighty p******* off with having to lose £12,000 of that to Betfair, even though I had already paid £1,000 in commission to them for doing nothing more than allowing me to use their site.
It really is a disgrace. The way out now is for Betfair to increase commission for high earners to maybe 10%, so they win for doing nothing and the high earner gets to keep much more of their hard earned money. Evan 20% wouldn't be a total disaster, greedy but not a total disaster for high earners. Just trying to see way out of the mess |
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8 grand a month is still a nice income imo !! Betfair need to address how this affects the small winners on here. People making £400 quid in a week and handing over £200 to Betfair is a joke - If that person has spent 30 hours on here and is left with £200 he is earning £6.66 per hour ffs
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remember we will all have the last laugh this model is well on its way out in a few years time they will be phoning you up pleading to put the liquidity into the exchange then you can tell them you have found something better and to f off
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move to ****
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