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Ipad
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if your boss every wednesday came up to you & said you've worked really well this week so i'm going to take 1/2 your wages for being so good,what would you do ?
same as you should do, work somewhere else or avoid the boss .... doesn't matter how many times you start these threads, there is a simple answer, if you are neither sharp enough or skilled enough to determine how to evolve your profit making then you like many others will die a slow death, people like thejudge above have basically summed it up for you one more thing, the majority of people on betfair lose or at best turn a small profit, you are skimming their cash off, why would they have any sympathy for you on a pier to pier site? .... see you next weds |
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i get 2/1 about a 4/1 shot,thats how disgraceful & unfair a premium charge is.
which means you need to double your strike rate, there you go problem solved I hope I have been of assistance to you |
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note to book :-
why dont you just back 20 favourites a day, every day in tandem with your normal betting habits. statistically you will probably lose a very small percentage of those bets over the long term. yet the commission you pay for those 20 bets, win/lose, day in day out, will probably negate the PC charge on your account ? |
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I'm not as unsympathetic as I perhaps sound though I WILL insist a tax on turnover is always worse than a tax on profit.
If Betfair said yes we will get rid of PC but everybody will pay 4.5 or even 5% commission I would go along with that,though the latter figure would cost me a bit. Would the PC payers ? If the answer is yes then perhaps all of us big,medium and small could combine and see what we can do. |
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Like the sound of the idea about refunding PC albeit unlikely to ever happen, would as someone suggested much prefer to pay a higher sliding scale of commission of say between 20% & 5%. There are numerous options available to BF that could be applied to make it fairer on all players, although of course some would still find fault with it.
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Seems mighty unfair to me, not that I will ever be charged, unless they start charging for losing.
What percent is the charge? And how much do you need to be winning every month? Say you were winning £20,000 a month, how much would the charge be? |
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* to adjust a comment
Lifetime winners will get a very slight (whatever % rate they pay in PC OF THEIR RATE) relief on loses, a fraction of the rate they pay in other words...but that's only because they are actually taking the tax on the money that was won before PC was introduced! A point I still struggle to believe is lawful. |
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elise,nothing to do with not being sharp,just being mugged,thanks for your smug comment
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dustybin,have you gone any further about its legality ?
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milo,between £4000 & 12000 depending on your pc %
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The highest rate is 60% as I understand so on £20k a month you would pay £12k. I don't think there can be many PC payers who win anything like that every month though.
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what?
You would pay between £4000/£12,000 out of £20,000? Are you sure? |
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How would you get to 60% then?
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you only pay after a winning week Milo, not every week
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but like my example, say you won £5,000 every week?
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You certainly have to have made £250k profit over the lifetime of your account.
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Week 1 : +£2000, PC is £800
Week 2 : +£1000, PC is £400 Week 3 : +£4000, PC is £1600 Week 4 : -£15000, PC is zero Week 5 : +£1000, PC is £400 I think book determines this to be unfair |
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There are different types of pc payers,fast pic boys,traders,market makers and inside information probably the main types.As said before i,ve the greatest sympathy for the market makers,traders are basically making money on the back of someone elses bet,an idea that was encouraged by betfair by the giving of a dvd to tutor a new customer.
Maybe there is a case for pc on pure traders,though again hard for an average joe not to green up if possible(or cashout haha). Fsat pic boys with the laying of fallen/dead horses charge them more. |
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elise you are missing the point.That majority you speak of that are loosing dont do it on purpose and most are trying to win or find the holy grail/system that allows them to make a living through punting but the PC has now taken that option away so alot are giving up trying so it is hurting liquidity even more than someone skimming or someone who is a winner ever could.It is easy to say im loosing so why would i have any sympathy but what happens if you start winning?You then find out that one week you win 10k and you pay 2k in PC and then the next you lose 9k and you are 1k down when you should be 1k up.Ok you then go above 20% so you can win some before you pay it again but it ends up negating your edge and for someone who is a picker and not a trader etc it becomes very frustrating.
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why not just transfer over to ****?
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book, if you are a 40-6-% premium charge payer you are imo playing with marked cards,
if for some unfathomable reason you are not playing with marked cards, and I include in my marked cards scenario fast picture advantage, then you are certifiable, good luck. |
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net loss over 5 weeks is 7k
yet PC of £3200 has been payed over that period. in any other walk of life (tax) you would be entitled to a rebate |
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The trouble is milo I don't think anybody has won every week for more than 10 years. There might be the very odd exception but most PC players are people who lose at least occasionally and as I understand it get no relief for that from the "tax" they pay on next week's profit.
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dusty
I argued this point at length when the first PC was introduced - it appears highway robbery I dont ever defend them - but at the point of the change they were not taxing you on your past profits, they were taxing you at a higher rate on future profits, based on your past performance. I agree this equates to virtually the same thing, but this is why it is probably legal and as far as I know, never been challenged in law |
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lapsy,your bang on,no one should be paying more then 20% pc,maybe bot users should be charged more for sure & they've ruined it for average joe using his brain,big boss,i think any pc over 20% is wrong & sheer greed.
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As i said Book, you need a Back/Lay low loss commision paying system put in place in tandem with your BF day to day activities to reduce/negate your PC.
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wee eck,ive always been sat in front of comp,with no fast pics & no bots,thats why im pissed off with this whole situation,sharp minds used to be betunfairs advert,sharp minds no longer need apply.
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Yes book forgot them,i've no bot and just used my head if i thought odds were in my favour.
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middleman, with respect you are missing the point
what i've said to book prevously is that there are ways to avoid it or reduce it, also some of the comments here on how much you'd pay on x amount of profit etc are incorrect, you are making basic assumptions i'm not commenting further, the point is if you have the brains to make a profit then you should have the brains to understand the charges and EVOLE your methods in order to keep it dismmiss it as smug book, but actually i've tried to help you two or three times, you just don't look at it properly |
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big boss ?
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book,any premium charge is wrong imo.It is discrimination.Why should i pay more for using the same service just because i win?No matter how someone goes about winning as long asit is deemed acceptable by Betfair and not illegal then they shouldnt be discriminated against.
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how have you helped elise,you beat around the bush rather then saying it straight,to the point would be good.
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book, ok just once, pm me, email address
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how do i do that on here
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as per Elise's post, If you have the ability to produce a PC paying account then you must surely have the acumen to work out how to avoid the charges on it, it aint rocket science.
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as per Elise's post, If you have the ability to produce a PC paying account then you must surely have the acumen to work out how to avoid the charges on it, it aint rocket science.
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book, I am impressed if that is the way you operate, to be in the 40-60 %
premium charge bracket with no obvious advantage is an outstanding achievement. |
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Betfair may well still be making a nice little profit but their share price collapse must have cost some people more than any PC payer has forked out. So there is no point at the moment compaining about the PC and not making any other suggestion. I and one other person I think have put forward the idea of changes to the commission rate. Why doesn't somebody who feels strongly enough start a thread asking Betfair for details of what they could do to the commission rate to get the same profit as they do out of the PC ?
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big boss,im sorry to sound a div on this matter,but i dont.
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