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FROM 1/8TH ODDS TO 1/3RD ODDS IN 60 MINUTES jack wilson watch
FROM 1/8TH ODDS TO 1/3RD ODDS IN 60 MINUTES jack wilson watch
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Would you bet one-twelfth each way?
July 4, 2012 Posted by: IanS http://www.geegeez.co.uk Punters at Salisbury on Sunday might well have done at least a double take when they looked at the each way terms on offer from bookmaker Peter Wilson. He was going one-twelfth the odds each way on the eight runner maiden, and not surprisingly there were complaints from customers that they were being ripped off, and from fellow bookies who claimed he was bringing them all into disrepute. Wilson, who trades as Jack Wilson, was quick to defend himself by saying that he was offering much better prices than his competitors on the outsiders in the race. That’s true enough; he was 125/1 on Gavi (SP 50/1), 250/1 Alfie Joe (SP 66/1) and 250/1 Moonshine Ruby (SP 100/1). For the record, they filled three of the last four places, so Wilson wasn’t paying out on any of them. Andy Smith, who operates as Festival Racing was also at Salisbury. He said, “It’s wrong. In my opinion the racecourses should say in their contracts with on-course bookmakers that to bet on their track we should bet at either the standard (each way) terms or win only.” Neil Roddis, development director for Racing For Change also supported the approach of win only bets if a bookie is offering significantly higher odds. He said, “Doing the maths and calculations in peoples’ heads is difficult, and I think it’s in some ways taking advantage of novice and infrequent racegoers who don’t understand the nuances of betting. If a bookmaker wants to offer those sort of odds, don’t bet each way, bet win only and make it clear.” Wilson was quick to counter with a blast at his colleagues. He claimed, “Other bookmakers are fleecing them (the punters) because they are falsifying the win prices to compromise the place terms. I am giving full win odds which reflect my place terms.” Whilst clearly a return if one of those horses wins is substantially higher, in place terms the much lower rate means that the difference generally amounts to a matter of pence. In the maiden at Salisbury a place for Gavi would have retuned £11 at one fifth SP, and just £11.41 from Wilson; Moonshine Ruby it was £21 against £21.83. On Alfie Joe the difference was more marked; £14.2 against £21.83. It demonstrates the point Roddis makes quite clearly. Now Wilson isn’t doing anything contrary to the rules. The 2007 Gambling Act allows bookies to set their own place terms provided they are clearly displayed. Tim Moore, chief executive officer of the Administration of Gambling on Tracks Ltd, confirmed that. After the complaints at Salisbury he said, “The betting ring manager spoke to the bookmaker concerned, but that’s as far as it went because on-course bookmakers are allowed to set their own place terms as long as they are prominently displayed.” So what are we to make of it all? We’re all used to a quarter, a fifth and occasionally you see one-sixth the odds for place betting. To offer one-twelfth sounds extremely meagre, although if the price differential is right, it can offer a better return even if the horse is only placed. But that combination of price gap and placing isn’t going to happen often; in the race examined only one of the three outsiders met the price criteria. In reality place odds of one twelfth feel immoral, beyond the boundary of the battle between bookie and punter, a matter of greed on the part of the bookie offering them |
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RE;JACK WILSON Pontefract Racecourse I will speak to the Betting Ring Manager - there must be something that we can do
https://www.facebook.com/PontefractRacecourse/posts/282171138539072 |
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Pontefract Racecourse We've spoken to Jack Wilson bookmakers - his argument is that he is offering enhanced win odds. And to be fair, i've been to look at 3 races and his win odds have been higher than his neighbours. Probably best for Each Way backers to look elsewhere, but those putting win bets on, he is quite fair. I hope this helps!
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Thetruthhurts, Thank's but no thank's, My bet's will be on at the best morning prices and almost all of them will open up on course at a lesser price than what I am on at.
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YEP.EWAY BACKERS,ANYONE WANTING MORE THAN £20 ON LOOK ELSEWHERE(A BIT LIKE BETFRED).HOPE THIS HELPS
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but those putting win bets on, he is quite fair
He is ALWAYS under betfair as he shadows it religeously. Therefore those putting on win or EW bets can ALWAYS do better elsewhere (here for starters). I have seen them give a punter their money back when they have taken the cash off the punter but it drops on here in that split second - NO BET. It brings the whole business into disrepute and I don't want anyone associating my business with his. Won't be long now before the EW charlatans have turned all the punters off from betting with us. Sadly, this is spreading as nothing is done to protect the betting public so more and more are trying it. Someone switch the lights out when the last one leaves the ring. |
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You got it Wassy , these people aren't interested in the Long Term though just fleecing as much short term..... You do have to wonder if Jockey will ever get back the price he paid for his pitches though cos he will have killed the game long before then?
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just been told this,we were next to him at ponty on monday,quiet day and we had a couple of lads having a day out having a fiver e.w. on a couple of horses every race with us but apparently one of them had a bet next door in a race and when he went to collect he hadn't checked his ticket and it said 2.50 e.w,he told him to get the ring manager which we helped him get but he wouldn't budge even though it was only about a tenner at stake,the kid then obviously came back to us and continued to have his fivers e.w,obviously he should have looked at his ticket and mistakes can be made but we have our opinion on what happened.
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Has he been outed by the N.B.A yet ?
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Good grief ribero1
 One of the punters he was having a row with at Stratford was about something similar (not place terms for a change). |
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I don't know if he even plays basketball demo
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It's an anagram wassie !
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all on course books should withhold payment to gambling commision till something is done
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It has got very little to do with the Gambling Commission. They are not allowed to put commercial restrictions on licence holders.
The only people that could do that are the tracks. |
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states in contract bookmaker must not be argumentetive on course surely this situation is causing plenty
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clayfield if you are getting on best odds you must be doing plenty in
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who would you lot sooner bet next to thetruthurts or jockey
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maxed you have to laugh at that rule almost every bookmaker on course would be kicked out
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Is it not time to offer 2 shows? The first being win only, the second being price to show / place.
The public will see clearly what they are getting. Software could simply have the win show on screen for 5 seconds for example followed by the place show. It works ok for the exchanges, don't see them guaranteeing place odds at 1/5th when they are not really available, and convincing bookies to bet overbroke even in part with expenses as they are will never happen in my view. I dont agree with what Wilson does but don't think he deserves quite the stick he gets as we are not dealing with large sums of money and his win price is miles bigger than the SP returned to those unfortunate soles having doubles and trebles etc in the offices. Should we not be debating why the SP is a joke? Is the scale of that problem not rather more an issue? |
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thetruthhurts;are you sure you will get on on all 3 days at haydock off your number,i think the weather may help you a little.
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well jack wilson has had all this free publicity,i can imagine even more people will bet with him now.
really all the knocking on here has backfired |
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jury still out
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Have just read the RP article. I was expecting something different, if you had ignored all the betfair posts about Wilson the article actually suggests he's not that bad i.e. worsening ew terms but improving win prices: 250-1 compared to 50-1.
Sounds like nothing will be done. |
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ARTFUL,IM A BACKER AT 1.01 I GET ON ALL 3 DAYS IF WANT EM.
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davy thats just his stock excuse ,as we know the sps are rank on bad ew races ,if he comperes his place returns with say adges i know who will be best .He is a disgrace in all aspects of bookmaking ,refusing bets when the price was on his board ,bu tbetfair has just shortened ,is just one example
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the article does make his prices acceptable at some level.
what might have , what could have etc if no hopers won or were placed. what is avoided is WHAT DID HAPPEN , what he actually did pay out on the winner , second and third on sunday. that is when it became clear by how much he had fleeced the casual punters on sunday and brought about the volume of complaints |
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THERESOMEPRATS,,WHO WOULD U RATHER BET NEXT TO,SOMEONE WHO ATTRACTS PEOPLE TO THE RACECOURSE,OR SOMEONE WHO DRIVES PEOPLE AWAY?????
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i always thought the art of bookmaking was getting them in at the right price .....i must have beeen wrong
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JOHNNY,HAVNT U HEARD,THE NEW ART OF ONCOURSE BOOKMAKING IS TO PURCHASE AN EXPENSIVE FRONT LINE PICK,THEN HERE LIES THE ART,U THEN PROCEED(COMBINED WITH THE RACECOURSE)TO DRIVE AS MANY PUNTERS FROM THE RACECOURSE AS POSSIBLE,THIS CAN BE ACHIEVED IN A NUMBER OF WAYS USUALLY BY FLATLY REFUSING TO LAY A BET,ONLY TAKING A BET AS AN ARB,OR BY DISPLAYING RIP OFF PLACE TERMS.THEN WHEN THE OBJECTIVE IS ACHIEVED,SCREAM THE PLACE DOWN THAT THERES NOT A SOUL IN THE BETTING RING.HOPE THIS HELPS
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Jocky is a maverick member of the new blood that have infiltrated the betting ring over the last ten years. He has no idea of the basics of bookmaking or even a loose concept of customer retention. His simple application of figures i.e. Exchange price ratio both win and place to the price/terms he offers is a very simple practice. It may not be illegal - it might however be immoral and moreover lead to the ultimate demise of the business in which he hopes to continue to operate. Is the Rogue Traders programme looking for new material ? A prime candidate is out there !
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What software system is he using? RDT limit place terms to 1/8th on there software which used to be terms main firms used to use in 2yo races.
At least he offers place terms on three places in 8 runner races. Others have only done two places in the past. Please can courses see sense and restore old order. |
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He uses Exante.
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DANIELS MOTHER,THE NEW BLOOD U DESCRIBE ARE CURRENTLY RUNNING MOST MAJOR(AND I USE THE TERM LOOSELY)BOOKMAKING FIRMS IN THE COUNTRY,WHO WOULD EVER HAVE THOUGHT U WOULD STRUGGLE TO GET A £100 BET ON AN ODDS ON SHOT WITH ANY OF THE SO CALLED BIG BETTING CHAINS,WHO TEN YEARS AGO WOULD HAVE BELIEVED U WOULD BE OFFERED DERISORY SUMS LIKE £5.50 WHEN TRYING TO GET A BET ONLINE ON AN ODDS ON SELECTION.MORALITY AND ETHICS HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THE PAST,AND AS AN ONCOURSE BOOKMAKER I CAN TELL U THIS STRATEGY IS BEING ADOPTED BY MORE AND MORE OPERATORS,BOTH IN THE SHOPS AND ONCOURSE.
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I cannot understand why Wilson and other newer bookmakers wont lay trade. If a price is on the board, I want to lay it at that price. Does it really matter who backs it?
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WASNOT,THEY ARE THE NEW BLOOD,THEY DONT WANT TO TAKE A BET FULL STOP,IF HAYDOCK PARK IS ON TOMORROW,AS U DRIVE ON TO THE COURSE U WILL SEE POSTERS SIGNS AND FLAGS ADVERTISING BETFRED AND THE BETFRED BETTING SHOP,GO IN AND TRY TO GET A BET OF £100 OR MORE ON,SO IF THE BIGGEST INDEPENDENT IN THE WORLD WONT TAKE A BET,THEN WHY SHOULD JOCKY?????????????????
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COMMISSION AGENTS,PIMPS AND BURGLARS,ITS THE FUTURE
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Wilson wont even lay a fiver to trade. Think its wrong myself.
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HES NOT ON HIS OWN THOUGH IS HE MR HUGHES??????????????????????
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WHAT ABOUT THE BIGGEST INDEPENDENT IN NORTH WALES??????????????????????????????/
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