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You mean unlike the ones who exposed Aitken, Archer, the MP's expenses, etc etc Diamond...?
Sorry if the previous post gets in the way of the freeloading though, obviously... |
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I have tried hard to divert this thread off tipping lines (read earlier messages) but a few keep coming back with**ging off all tipping lines. OK lets all agree to now drop the tipping line debate and get back to the original issue which was how the bookmakers control the media and how some individuals have no moral integrity about the work they do. Personally I could not work for a bookmaker or particiapte in a bookmaker controlled activity such as a carefully monitored chat show and hold my head up. Mr Cunnigham and others say they deplore bookmaker activities but there is an almost complete absence of comment about it in the media. On here it crops up time and time again and yet in the mass media .. virtually zilch, coincidence ?.
Why should we bother as some say, well bookmakers hate publicity around these activities. The one thing you can do is bring it to the publics attention. Believe me the vast majority are astounded that this go's on, they are genuinely shocked. |
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joshuag, well said, I would like exposed the methods the bookies use to check accounts out even before the account holder has had a bet. And I don't just mean over 18 checks.
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Which Journalist outed Jeffrey Archer then?
The Daily Star was brought to court for libel but cant remember papers outting him. Papers published his trials and tribulations, many of which were in the public domain before the papers published them. |
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Its all down to the individual millhouse,there is no general rule as to whats acceptable behaviour in return for financial gain,whats legal and what some would consider moral are two different things.
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Zebadi
Nor is it illegal to have an advert on C4 TV this afternoon saying "keep backing those winners and we will keep giving you free bets" whenn in actual fact if you have a habit of backing winners you will be banned from betting. What is moral is a matter of opinion but then again is it morally right to alter race betting immedialy when a NR has an adverse effect on the bookmaker race shape but take 45 minutes when it has a favourable affect. We have all got endless lists of bookmaker tricks that are legal but certainly underhanded. Of course the successful punters crime is that he simply walks into a shop and places a bet at a price freely advertised within the shop. Imagine Habitat banning you because you only buy from them when a sale is on. |
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I thought that ad was banned?
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Diamond, Zebadei, what worries me is that in the future, no journalist who wants to do their job with integrity or honesty, or who wants to seek to expose the truth or campaign for the people he represents, will ever enter into this industry.
Free thinking, questioning the establishment, or failing to actively deceive the people you are writing or broadcasting for when it comes to the bookmaking industry, is now little short of professional suicide. Part of the reason I keep rattling on about punters setting up a formal body to represent us, is because I believe it will enable the journalists in this industry who do want to do their job properly to actually report the truth (reporting the activities of a punters association fighting for punters rights is very different to questioning these issues yourself) If things carry on as they are, the only future journalists who will want to work in this industry for very long are ones who see the media gravy train as a genuine career option, in my opinion... |
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Do you have a tipping service for sofas too Joshuag? It's not exactly the same thing now is it. I would get fed up if people came in every week and ran their fingers over my furniture without buying and only went to the checkout when they spotted a wrong price label.
Having said that, I recognise that the bookmakers restricting of accounts is completely out of order. Its naive to not expect punters to shop around and take best price now and the majority are far from serial arbers. A serial arber backs one in the Whitbread Gold Cup and one in a Southwell seller. This aspect seems to be overlooked despite the bookmakers themselves pouring money into advertising on odds comparison products. |
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Millhouse
A punters association is a huge undertaking, a full time job. One initial possibility is to organise a protest at a high profile televised race meeting. Nothing too controversial, maybe simply issue all participants with a T shirt to wear and a slogan and then twist Mac's arm for an interview |
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millhouse, in who's interest is it for the books to lay mathematically poor ew bets or consistent winners heavily?
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Why don't you actually do something about this issue, millhouse, rather than just rattling on about it endlessly on here? If I was as passionate about an issue as you clearly are about this, i would have done something about it by now...
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The mole, I would if I thought there would be some support for it...
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Chompy just tex me and sayed in who is interest Cider ?!
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Mole, its a long olde haul, believe me.............
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The Arbing argument is a smokescreen, a illusory baseball bat used to convince losing punters and shop staff that the banning of punters is morally right as the banned culpits have this dreaded arbing disease. It happens but it is exagerrated and lets not forget that bookies invented it and still arb the markets themselves
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Cider
forget the filthy EW angle, we are not generally talking about EW scalpers and certainly I had over 3,000 bets last year and every one was on the nose to win |
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So presumably you have taken the better prices on here then?
No need for bookies... |
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Millhouse is spot on as usual. Unfortunately a formal body to represent punters has been mooted for years but has never come close to materialising. IBAS could have taken on this mantle but are evidently more in allegiance with bookmakers than punters. I seem to remember the great hope was when Jim (Timeform) McGrath got his place on the board of the BHA and how everyone thought he would champion the punter. The reality imo is that never has any individual within racing been so guilty of selling out to the gravy train, instead of using his knowledge and influence in horse racing to gain a better deal for punters in the UK he sits silently, shame on him!
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Il help you millhouse.
mike grimwood. |
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As a matter of interest, what, in your view, would be acceptable platforms on which a racing journalist/broadcaster could ply his trade?
If writing/broadcasting directly for a bookmaker or betting exchange, writing in the trade paper and broadcasting on either of the dedicated racing channels is unacceptable (and they are arguably all "tainted" directly or by association with vested betting interests) it does not leave a lot for someone whose profession is a racing journalist/broadcaster. I did not follow the Oddschecker live chat, but it seems to me that Graham Cunningham has always managed to act with integrity despite things being as they are. |
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millhouse thats just the way it is now,its basically a gravy trough,the amount of gravy you can go for is more or less down to an individuals moral code whilst remaing within the law.
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forget the filthy EW angle, we are not generally talking about EW scalpers and certainly I had over 3,000 bets last year and every one was on the nose to win
Not doing a bad job of getting on then I though only losers got layed ! |
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*thought
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Despite all the subsequent posts from you Joshuag, the fact remains that you posted a thread clearly designed to generate negative publicity for Graham Cunningham.
He happens to run a tipping line. You also run a tipping line. The motivation for your original post is pretty obvious. You don't need to add any more posts to this thread. You've been found out. Time to call it a day on the thread-posting front I reckon. |
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Milligramone
Its about working for these outlets but reporting responsibly and with balance. Let me give you an example. Twelve months ago AD of the Racing Post wrote a full spread article which effectively endorsed and promoted FOBTs and virtual racing. He did not even have the decency to tell the readers that they would lose x% on these outlets. Instead he told them he had made 30 quid on the day. Now try asking AD or any other writer to write a report on the extent to which bookmakers bar punters from shops and online/phone accounts. In fact they did a peice on telephone betting. The lady who did the article and the visit never asked about closures. |
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Scutler, we have agree to drop the tipping line debate see eralie post
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Nobody seems to be able to answer my question.
Why would anyone want people taking lots of cash out out the industry tax free... |
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Its about working for these outlets but reporting responsibly and with balance.
It seems to me that almost sums up Graham Cunningham's contribution over the years (as I said, I did not follow the latest broadcast). He is - thankfully - no Alastair Down. |
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joshuag
Self promoting, self serving, self important pompous nonsense. |
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Cider, these companies make millions upon millions of pounds a year - refusing to take bets from people that don't lose is about pure greed, nothing else.
If these government licensed companies want to operate in this way disgraceful way, then that's their choice. But let's let everyone know that winning is not actually allowed, that if you do place bets and win you won't be able to bet in the future, that unless you lose your money you will be treated with total contempt. These aren't companies that 'take on the punters', lay bets without discriminating or treat everyone fairly, as the paid for media propaganda seeks to perpetuate. They are thoroughly disingenuous, totally fraudulent, absolutely manipulative organisations that actively discriminate against people whose only crime is to achieve the only possible objective of betting in the first place - all of which happens while their media business partners seek to deceive the people they write or broadcast for that the absolute opposite is the case... |
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Re. your question Cider.
If punters do not hold onto the illusion that they can take a load of money out of the industry tax free, then they will simply cease to bet. The fact that the industry, ie: corporate off-course bookmakers, bha, some CoC''s, make it almost impossible to for a punter to win as a continued source of income, gradually *****away at that illusion with the public / punter. If the off-course conglomerates practices were exposed, both historically and currently, then betting would collapse. |
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Agree with Freetea entirely
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So we should all conspire to keep the bookmakers in profit, keep the BHA in operation, keep the prize money in place for owners, keep jobs in the press for fellow conspiritors. Yes lets all lie down and know our place in life. While we are at it didn't the bankers recently have a hard time of it, well lets help them out financially, Oh I forget we already did that ... Doh!
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If you don't like them, then don't bet with them.
Not hard is it? |
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I don't bet with bookmakers,
it's not very hard. |
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If the off-course conglomerates practices were exposed, both historically and currently, then betting would collapse.
That's part of my point, betting is the lifeblood of the racing industry, why would anyone support something that may bring it to its knees? I don't disagree with any of those points, millhouse, but it doesn't answer my question. The betting industry doesn't want winning punters, but nor does the BHA, the racing industry, the government or anyone else involved. |
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Then the dream will eventually die, the usual solution to everything seems to be overkill, you only have to look at the size of the lottery payouts since they seem to have a draw every day to realise that.
Something will have to give soon, probably a few racecourses |
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Agreed Cider.
Which kinds of explains a large part of the appeal for me. However, if betmaverick and other more obvious targets want to take the rotten shilling, then good luck to them, tho' I respect them not. |
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'Winning' punters will never ever be able to bet with impunity at the books, whatever happens.
I don't know why some people think those who have decent lifestyles working on the periphery of the industry are going to martyr themselves in a cause for something that is never, ever going to happen. |