I will be at York next week seeing things with my own eyes. Why don't you come and meet up with me and I can show you the ropes.

I for one would certainly like to meet and learn from so humble an individual. You'll be easy to spot - wearing the "I

A_T, sooner you than me. When some random bloke on the internet refers to me as novice and is suspiciously keen for me to meet him so he can show me his ropes I tend to run a mile

Ballydoyle domination.

Over what distance?

Changingoftheguard and Nahaani the only trial horses who've impressed me so far. Godolphin should supplement Coroebus unless they are convinced he won't stay.

Desert Crown has come in for plenty of support recently.

Luxembourg a non-runner apparently.

Moore rated todays trial the best Derbi trial
Think the winner has loads of speed
Wont stay

The Dante has Desert Crown, Point Lonsdale, El Bodegon (conqueror of Stone Age), Magisterial, and a few others. The former is relatively an unknown making his debut this season, but has been backed into 2nd fav.

Another scintillating run from any of these esp Desert Crown or Magisterial can challenge Stone Age (new fav after the defection of Luxembourg) for top spot.

The last at Roscommon today was won by the top weight Darraby, comfortably, on his first venture in handicaps.
Third time out and last time out he was beaten fully 18 lengths by Stone Age.
Make of it what you will.

stone age had a hard race ,  he can only reproduce or more likely regress . piz badile must also have been feeling it or he,d have run in the derrinstown as it was . So their it is derby winner is walk of stars

Comparative quotes, ratings, times Source Racing Post

DERRINSTOWN 2021

This race hasn't had a major bearing on the Derby in recent years, with High Chaparral the last to do the double in 2002. However, there have been few winners as impressive as the winner since and he was made a best-priced 7-4 for Epsom.

BOLSHOI BALLET is very uncomplicated, quickens, relaxes. We always loved him. He travelled to France last year in ground that we knew he wouldn't like but we wanted to travel him for experience. We are delighted with that and we couldn't have asked for any more from him. There was an even pace which was great. He quickened well - Aidan O'Brien, trainer.

BOLSHOI BALLET made mincemeat of this field, tracking the pace-setter before kicking for home in the straight. He soon quickened clear and sustained that momentum all the way to the line, suggesting that another 2f at Epsom won't be a problem. This very likeable colt has been a steady improver in his previous four starts, with all three of his wins now coming here, including the Group 3 Ballysax Stakes last time, which sees him become the ninth horse to complete that double since the turn of the century


TS 104  RPR  117         Going Good    time 127.37      Last 2F   24.8  Sire:Galileo (IRE) (11.2f)
Dam:Alta Anna (FR)
Dam's Sire:Anabaa (USA) (8.3f)
Breeder:Lynch-Bages & Rhinestone Bloodstock

05Jun21
Eps C13yG1 638K    1m4f    GS    9-0    7/11 btn 17L Adayar 9-0    11/8F    R L Moore    OR117    TS80    RPR97




Derby
 


DERRINSTOWN 2022

STONE AGE was very impressive at Navan, and he's put it together well now. I think today's trial was a good race, and I think he will probably improve again. He's a very exciting colt - Ryan Moore, jockey.


STONE AGE simply destroyed this field to continue a week of domination for Ballydoyle. He was in front the whole way and really galloped on strongly to secure a commanding success. He shaped like a proper Derby contender and 1m4f should suit him. He had decent form as a juvenile and perhaps just needed a season to develop as a lot of his sire's progeny do. He beat some good rivals here, and he has been slashed into 3-1 for the Derby on back of this rout.

TS  88   RPR   117   Time 128.25  Going Good    Last 2 Furlongs 24.5 secs Breeding Sire:Galileo (IRE) (11.2f)
Dam:Bonanza Creek (IRE)
Dam's Sire:Anabaa (USA) (8.3f)

I agree Figgis - they seem to have 6 Derby contenders with a slight preference for Stone Age who ran 5 times as a 2yo and didn't win. Not saying it won't win the Derby but IMO it will be a poor renewal if it can. Maybe the Dante can throw up a good colt?

Shame the French horse Onesto is not entered - he looks the best of the middle-distance 3yo colts.

Where did Stone Age have a hard race?  If he gets a decent draw and then gets out in front at Epsom, which would seem likely, what is going to haul him in?  For me the track itself is the only possible source of concern.  He is a big long-striding type who may not act well on it.

In the Saint Cloud G1 (23 Oct), El Bodegon was clearly the best and seemed to be waiting for the step up to 1m2f to show his best.  Stone Age never looked like getting into contention but just ran on well to pass beaten horses at the end.  As this was on Soft going, both should stay the 1m4f at Epsom.  But you have to believe that either Stone Age has improved significantly since this run or El Bodegon has failed to train on to justify the wide disparity in their odds.  (Stone Age has only come into consideration after the problems with Luxembourg came to light.)  I think Luxembourg would still be favourite now if he hadn't got injured, despite the events in last weeks trials.

Thanks Marksman and goof luck.  Always enjoy and appreciate your input.  However, for me it is a case of whatever Serpentine can do so can Stone Age as I reckon the latter to be a fair bit superior.  In amongst all the junk and red herrings of Aidan's comments sometimes we have to take on board some of it.  He reckons they didn;t over try the horse as a 2yo.  I know nothing about training horses so take it as read he is being honest.

Certainly a nice type. Hard to say he is anything special, unless you’d bought the hype on agave. Be interesting to see if he can progress more, he’ll need to though

For AT^^

is there  a horse that doesn't need to progress to win a derby?

That depends on how good a race this year's proves to be on the day. If it's as bad as the events won by Kris Kin and Sir Percy then I reckon either of the main O'Brien two could just about sneak the win on what they've just shown. This year's may look as weak as those at the moment but more often than not at least one horse will improve past that level on the day.

Also it's not usually an easy race to make the running in unless you have a much superior horse, like a Slip Anchor or Reference Point. Or, alternatively, the rest of the jockeys allow the front runner a solo, as they did Serpentine. You'd think this time they would be a bit too wise to allow that to happen again so soon. Not that the O'Brien two will necessarily blaze a trail, but with both runners having had most success with those tactics they'll at least want to be up there and it's difficult to see one being given an easy lead.

Regarding the comparison of Stone Age with Serpentine, the latter had only three runs before the Derby so was obviously open to improvement. The former, with seven runs behind him and having already shown decent improvement from 2 to 3 seems less likely. The same yard's Snowfall showed it can be done, but, as Sandown has pointed out in previous posts, it becomes less likely the more they've raced.

I think Dylan Thomas only went on to win six group wins after Epsom. Clown.