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The 33/1 snapped up for the Guineas has long since gone.
She certainly looks a useful sort now. |
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Agreed. Ridden like they knew she was different class, and still got to the front too soon.
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not even a market up on the exchange
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havent heard anything after this listed race, but surely the fillies mile should be next and we could be looking at odds on fav for may
, that was impressive today |
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is there anything at york, doncaster before then ? or ireland
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Yes I asked for a 1000 Guineas market after Inspiral won her first race and still waiting.
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Looks like the May Hill is next.
Presumably the fillies mile after that if they persevere with her. She may be best on good going though as she does seem to like fast ground and I would not like to see her having a tough race on a bog. |
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of course forgot about may hill
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the second could be an Oaks filly
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16/1 on here on sportsbook, im luckier than most maximum bet 0.63p
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Got a few £ on at 16/1 Elis then discovered 20/1 at Spoilsports. Loaded up again. Very, very impressive imho. Did everything wrong. Still won. Given the breeding I wouldn't kick the Oaks out either. Be surprised if JG has a better 2yo filly than that tbh
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One downside to her is the trainer. Not that the Gosdens are not very good trainers. It’s just that they are not known for getting horses ready for the Guineas. Raven’s Pass and even Kingman somehow managed to get beaten and there has only been a single Guineas winner from the stable, a shockingly low return for such a large well stocked high class yard.
I am supposing they do not like to rush the 3yos, and give them the time they need. It would be irritating though if Inspiral ended up winning the Coronation Dtakes having lost the Guineas, |
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I wouldn't wish to detract from Inspiral's impressive performance at Sandown (especially considering she still looked a bit green and got to the front too soon), and at this stage she does look to me just about the best and most exciting of the 7f juvenile fillies we've seen so far this season (and more 'inspiring' than most of the 6f fillies seen thus far, with the possible exceptions of Sandrine and Hermana Estrella), but it needs to be put into context.
As I pointed out on the Guineas thread, this Listed race rarely has any significant bearing on the 1000 Guineas, with the recent exception of Billesdon Brook, who managed to get narrowly beaten in what at the time looked a substandard renewal of this race in 2017 before springing a massive surprise in the 1000 Guineas in 2018. The placed fillies on Thursday were officially rated 89 and 90 respectively, with Sunstrike having finished unplaced (beaten more than 6 lengths) behind Sandrine in the Gr.3 Albany Stakes at Ascot. The RP handicappers have seen no need to raise the ratings of those placed fillies, allocating them RPRs of 90 and 89, with Inspiral given a mark of 102. It's hard to envisage the official handicapper giving her a higher rating than that for this particular performance. This leaves her needing to find about a stone of improvement to have a winning chance in an average Guineas. With better races to come, she will have opportunities to achieve a much higher rating and put herself into serious contention for the Guineas, but this is still early in her career and she will be tackling better opposition from now on. The May Hill looks a sensible next target, since it's rarely contested by really top-notch performers, as a stepping stone to Group 1 targets later on. Gosden's usual approach in the past with his best fillies has been to pitch them straight into Group races (such as the Sweet Solera Stakes or the Prestige Stakes) following their maiden victories, so it came as a bit of a surprise to see him target the lowly Listed race at Sandown, as it's not a race he habitually targets with his better fillies. In terms of performance and ratings I wouldn't place Inspiral much above Joseph O'Brien's Agartha, who was almost as impressive in winning the Gr.3 Silver Flash Stakes at Leopardstown on Thursday. There are a number of other smart looking prospects emerging in Ireland that are likely to contest key races in the coming weeks such as the Gr.2 Debutante Stakes and Gr.1 Moyglare Stud Stakes. For example, Dermot Weld's Frankel filly Homeless Songs, who beat Agartha by a couple of lengths on debut earlier this month, looks like she could develop into a smart type. Having missed out on bigger prices for the Guineas, I certainly wouldn't be in any rush to take 16/1 Inspiral at this stage for the Guineas. Perhaps if nothing much emerges in the next few weeks, the 16/1 might be worth taking if it looks like she will have a fairly straightforward task in the May Hill. |
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I have never much been bothered about trends like which races were won by what in the past James. Such trends tend to change over the course of time and races obviously tend on average to be won by horses who are the best at the weights over going and trip. Horses do not know they can’t win because they ran in the wrong race 10 months ago
Inspiral may or may not be a group 1 filly. She is though a slow learner. After her first race Gosden specifically indicated his intention to take Inspiral forward with baby steps. This is the trainer responding to the needs of the horse. She was still green last time and did not need to be chucked to a group race straight off. This does not mean she won’t be any good. The previous Gosden habit of chucking his better 2yos into group company sooner is irrelevant to a green thing like Inspiral. The May Hill has a roll of honour that includes Lauren’s, Reams of Verse, Midway Lady, Spacious and other useful ones at least. Because Inspiral will be further improved for the experience and the extra furlong she would be a likely very hot favourite there, after which her Guineas odds will likely be single figure, assuming the going is not too soft. Agatha is a nice filly but she has had 5 runs already, and looks very professional and also quite exposed. She is 2 lbs behind an improving Inspiral who was too green to show her best either time she has run. It’s hard to see her improving past Inspiral but stranger things have certainly happened in recent times with fillies from Ireland improving from 2 to 3 in spite of having numerous runs and appearing to be lower than top class, before making sudden inexplicably rapid progress at 3. |
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I'm inclined to agree with everything you've written there, cryoftruth. I went back through recent (last 20 years) May Hill results and reminded myself that it has produced its fair share of top-class fillies, i.e. fillies successful at Group 1 level: it has featured a couple of subsequent winners of the 1000 Guineas (Ameerat and Speciosa, both placed in the May Hill), five fillies that subsequently finished placed in the Guineas (Hathrah, Maids Causeway, Spacious, Ihtimal, Laurens) and no fewer than eight winners of the Fillies' Mile (including two trained by John Gosden). It's been targeted by Gosden before and is a much better pointer to the Guineas than the race Inspiral won at Sandown. Given the classy way she won the Star Stakes, Inspiral is likely to be a warm order for the May Hill and she will have a good opportunity there to put up an improved performance/rating, and this in turn would put her in pole position for the Fillies' Mile (and the chance of achieving an even higher rating). At the moment she needs to find about 10-12 lbs improvement to be a serious Guineas contender, but she has done everything right so far and there is every reason to suppose she can progress to the top. There is nothing I would prefer for the Guineas ahead of Inspiral at this stage, and the only reason I haven't backed her is because her current odds (12/1 best price from 16/1) are simply too short for what she's actually achieved.
PS Agartha put up a seemingly much improved performance in the Gr.3 Silver Flash Stakes, and she may well be one of those slow-learning fillies that suddenly starts to make rapid improvement after a few runs suggesting she was nothing special. Her next couple of races (starting with the Gr.2 Debutante Stakes) will tell us a lot more. |
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Inspiral's Sandown form could be tested as soon as this weekend when the fillies that chased her home at Sandown are set to renew rivalry in the Gr.3 Sweet Solera Stakes at Newmarket. The Sandown 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th all feature among the 13 entries, headed by Wild Beauty (W.Buick) and Sunstrike (O.Murphy). Mark Johnston has a good record in this race (two winners and a runner-up in the last three renewals) and his filly Value Theory (by Gleneagles from a smart family), who won in good style over C&D last time, is an interesting contender.
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Yes indeed James. There really will be a clue as to the value of Inspiral’s last win in that race, provided of course that the going is not entirely different.
Personally I think Wild Beauty will take quite a bit of beating as her form even before Sandown was pretty strong. I like Value Theory too and she is a definite likely improver. Just wonder whether Gleneagles has been a tad disappointing as a stallion. He was a superb horse and as you say was bred in the purple. He has not really had a group 1 performer yet. Maybe Value Theory will be the one? |
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Yes, Gleneagles' best fillies so far are Novemba (fourth to Alcohol Free in the Gr.1 Coronation Stakes, RPR 114), Insinuendo (winner of the Gr.2 Kilboy Estate Stakes, RPR 109) and Loving Dream (winner of the Gr.2 Ribblesdale Stakes, RPR 106). He's also the sire of promising unbeaten juvenile Velocidad (winner of the Gr.2 Airlie Stud Stakes, RPR 100). He has yet to sire a Gr.1 winner of any description, but it's only his third crop of juveniles this year, and I expect he'll get his fair share of top-class horses.
Mark Johnston's filly made a nice impression last time and is bred to be quite smart: her dam is an unraced sister to top-class Verveine (Gr.2 winner, multiple Gr.1-placed, RPR 120). Quite how good she is remains to be seen, but she's less exposed than most. |
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Confirm market position or bomb today?
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confirmed
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never wise to get excited about 2 year olds........but she does look the real deal.
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Shame Gosden failed to get her ready for the Guineas.
He will no doubt publicly blame Franky for that as well. |
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COT, I thought it refreshing that Gosden said it as he saw it. He didn't publicly humiliate Dettori, just said he thought he gave his horse a poor ride. If Dettori had held his hands up in the first place and said it wasn't a good ride then it wouldn't have been such a big deal. Dettori ought to have been big enough to accept some responsibility, but as he wasn't then it needed to be said, now he needs to be big enough to accept it. A nice change from the usually insular racing fraternity and its sycophantic, mealy mouthed media, where there are only "fantastic" rides and no poor ones.
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yes but he didn't need to rub it in the following day
Figgis I was impressed by Inspiral - I can't remember a horse winning so easily in a big race at Ascot having seen so far behind at the start of the straight. Any thoughts, sectionals, etc.? |
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A_T, all he said was he didn't over complicate it like he did the day before. That's hardly a public slagging. I just see it as clarification over his attitude to the defeat the day before, in light of the criticism he himself received from some of racing's snowflakes.
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A_T, as to Inspiral. Immediately after the race I thought exactly the same as you. Very impressive and looks even better than last year. First guesses were that Discoveries came on from the Guineas, Tenebrism still hasn't trained on, or doesn't stay or both, Cachet (a substandard Guineas winner anyway) had slipped backwards after a few hard races and Honey Girl had run a career peak. After delving a bit deeper though and making comparisons I was surprised to find it wasn't anything like as good as I thought at first. I don't have a true handle on Spendarella's capabilities, but I have Discoveries only running to her Guineas form and Honey Girl also running to her previous best. The rest were all well below their best. In hindsight it isn't that surprising, as none of them were really coming here on a high. I reckon Inspiral didn't have to do any more than she did last year. And given that she wasn't exactly cantering all over them early on I don't think she could've improved on that. Although some may make allowances for Gosden's comments that she was only just fit, I'm taking them with a pinch of salt.
So in my view she's still obviously a good filly as she was last season, but she isn't exceptional. Possibly future events performances from those that ran on Friday will lead to me re-evaluating that card and realising I was wrong. But unless that happens, I know who I'd want to bet in a race on good ground containing Inspiral and Homeless Songs, it would be a maximum bet on the latter. |
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Of course time will tell Figgis.
RPR gave Inspiral 123 and I would personally not argue with that but I do think that she may well improve on that and also that she may actually already be better than the bare form. She has now run in 5 races, including a group 2 and 2 group ones. On 5 occasions she has quickened right away. keeps on doing a very fair impersonation of a champion. She did it in the May Hill, then the fillies mile. There is not doubt at all she would have won the 1000 Guineas as well has she been ready to run there. She made the Coronation Stakes field look very slow and that race had a number of group one winners and group one placed horses in it. She at least has the ability to repeatedly impersonate a champion, repeatedly giving the impression of being exceptional. A question. If you see something that, every time you see her, looks like a duck, continues to quack, has feathers and goes well with orange sauce, would it not be wise, sooner or later, to conclude that you are in fact looking at a duck. Inspiral keeps looking like a brilliant champion with speed to burn. Maybe she does not just look like a champion. Perhaps she is! Of course Inspiral might have got lucky 5 times and won 3 group races because the opposition was not up to much, we’re out of form, didn’t turn up or whatever. I think as she continues to make opponents all look like selling platers, the chances of her being lucky start to look longer and longer. I personally think she would be well worth a crack at the Eclipse or the International at York. She would be my choice with WFA and fillies’ allowance against Baaeed. |
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Of course Inspiral might have got lucky 5 times
Who mentioned luck? I said she's a very good filly and she fully deserved to win every race she's won. There's nothing substandard about the level she's been running to in regards to a Gp1 filly against her own sex. Last year I said the only thing I had against her was the ridiculously short price for a race so long away. However, in any given year the mile fillies are well below the level set by the Gp1 colts, much more than the 3yo allowance gives them. One can get lucky in a weak year, or a race where the colts don't run to their best, as happened with Alcohol Free last year. However it usually doesn't just take a good 3yo filly to beat the best colts over a mile, it takes an exceptional one. There's no question that Inspiral put up a good performance to win at Ascot. I said I don't think it was as outstanding as it looked. Even Gosden said he didn't expect her to win like that, but maybe she's even better than he thought. So to clarify, is Inspiral a very good filly and a worthy winner of all her races? Obviously she is. I just don't believe she's put up an outstanding performance in the same bracket as Minding and Alpha Centauri did in recent years at this stage. |
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And just to dispel the notion that I have taken some absurd bias against the filly, or that only an exceptional filly can win in such style, my personal favourite Guineas winning filly of recent years (and sadly the last one I backed ante post) was Sky Lantern. I'd argue that she was equally impressive in winning her Coronation Stakes, but she still wasn't on par with the best colts.
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I'm not keen on "The rest were all well below their best" which is something that gets trotted out from time to time and can't be proved either way. I remember a poster not rating Harbinger's King George run because in his opinion all the others ran below form.
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Well, I backed Harbinger for the KG and even remember making a bit of an ott statement on here that I'd be surprised if he was beaten at Ascot, but there's still no doubt the others ran some way below their best.
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Figgis
Nice discussion and good luck. We’ll doubtless have more chat when the 2 star fillies meet, if of course they do! Good luck etc |
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COT
I don't think Homeless Songs has quite hit the heights of Minding or Alpha Centauri either. Truth is if I take HS's best rating and Inspiral's then I have HS only 1lb ahead. Even if I was spot on I don't kid myself that confidence can be placed in such fine margins. The main reason I would go max on HS is the price, as it seems pretty clear the market is going to greatly favour Inspiral. Also I would prefer to side with the filly who has definitely shown she's recently improved. For as good as Inspiral's effort was I'm not convinced she improved, but we'll see. Obviously things will depend on what happens before they meet (if they do). If HS had a hard race beforehand and Inspiral wins easily then I may very well favour Inspiral. I might even back her against colts if I thought a race had softened up for her. ![]() |
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There is no doubt at all she would have won the 1000 Guineas as well has she been ready to run there
COT, I completely agree with that. By my reckoning her Ascot performance would've seen her win the Guineas comfortably by around 2 lengths. But this year's Guineas was the worst for ages, so that would still only make her a very good filly rather than a brilliant one. I just think the racing media go overboard about some of these up to scratch Gp1 wins and try to make them sound astonishing. This can lead to a situation where he who praises everybody praises nobody. Which in turn leads to a cynical response where some people can't even acknowledge true brilliance when it's in evidence. Baaeed being compared with Frankel, for example, which we both agree is nonsense. |
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Not many posts I enjoy reading these days, but Fig, Sandown and COT you have made this topic interesting. Great analysis and perfect grammar to boot.
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Hi Figgis
I actually do agree with much of what you say. Having rather taken to Inspiral after her first race when she was clueless before the last half furlong when she shot clear, I am a fan and thus biased! We all try and spot the next one early. I have had a few successes but many failures on that score certainly. Inspiral’s jury is still out to some extent but I remain full of hope. A clash with Baaeed is one I am hoping for before the end of the season, although Homeless Song may have to be dealt with first. 123 as a rating does not make her a superstar, and it’s easy to use superlatives. However she just might yet prove superstar status. I say this because, at least so far she has ended up winning easily enough, and nothing has yet looked to trouble her. Maybe it’s her style of racing that (until beaten) makes he so full of potential still. If she takes the Falmouth next (where she will be odds on) it will be later when she meets the colts that she will prove it one way or the other. Her breeding very much suggests that she will improve for going further though. One half brother (Celestran) is less stoutly bred and yet stayed 11 furlongs and won over 10. I really do think she may be capable of getting close to 130 when she develops further and gets to race over 10 furlongs, and her turn of foot would be deadly over that trip. If she did get that far and prove to be around 130 she would have as high a rating as Enable! It is not altogether out of the question that Inspiral could stay the Arc trip! It rather looks like Frankel is developing into a champion sire now doesn’t it? Anyway we have interesting times to look forward to in our discussions. |
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Homeless Songs is in the Falmouth but odds suggest not running - Weld very choosy about the ground for her so no guarantee the 2 will ever meet
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Oh and Inspiral’s finish at Royal Ascot, having been 12 lengths behind at half way was absolutely sensational.
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The Ascot race shows you were extremely unlucky she did'nt
show for the Guineas,cryoftruth.You done well putting her up well in advance,saying she's a good filly.Whether you backed her on here,I dont know,hope you came out of the Guineas with a few bob though,at least & this race. wd GL |