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Inspiral

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Replies: 132
By:
cryoftruth
When: 22 Jun 22 12:54
Well thank you.

I broke even on the Guineas after all this year thanks, betfair does at least allow you to take advantage of good antepost bets before they withdraw.

My successes and failures antepost are very long standing  - I am old!

Balanchine and Alexandrova were very big wins. Light Shift, Midday, Was, Workforce & Diminuendo less big wins too. Missed Frankel somehow as I thought he would be a Derby horse. This year a friend helped me win well on Tuesday, but I had actually backed Emily Upjohn at 50/1!

Biggest disappointment until Inspiral was 25/1 about Celtic Swing for the 2000 Guineas. He was unbeatable. Then in the Guineas they raced on a rutted road of firm ground, then he was knocked sideways by Chilly Billy coming out of the stalls, could not go down into the dip well, but rallied and lost by a foot to bloody Pennekamp. I have never quite recovered from that trauma! You can tell from my forensic memory of that particular tragedy! Would have won nearly a thousand pounds but for sheer bad luck,

This year I seem  to have already lost on Age Of Kings for next year’s 2000 Guineas!

But it’s all good fun if you try not to get too seriously involved financially.
By:
Sandown
When: 23 Jun 22 11:07
These days we are supplied with sectionals for all races at Ascot through the ATR site. I would suggest that one be careful about over-rating Inspiral's performance because compared with other races that day and other days, whilst it was good, I don't deny that, "sensational" is too strong a term to use imo. The truth is that compared to her rivals on the day, she was much better than those, by a long way, but the rest were not, either under-performing or not as good as thought. I grant that it "looked" sensational.

Inspiral was give an RPR of 123 which I won't argue with but also a Top Speed figure of 94. Even with a sectional upgrade I can't rate the performance as more than 109.Inspiral's time for the last 2f was 23.87 secs, certainly the fastest finishing split of the day. But compare with Thesis on the Thursday (ok 8f straight course but last 2f the same) at 23.78 seconds (NB going allowance almost exactly the same both days for last 3f).And just to make the point more strongly, Krypios finished in 23.00 seconds after 20f in the Gold Cup.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Inspiral in anyway, she is a top-class filly. And I have seen this situation before where the RPR given is not really supported by the clock a few times yet the horse went on to show better figures subsequently. The best example that comes to mind is Giants Causeway in 1999/2000 who I got wrong a few times. He evventually won 9 from 13 with 6 in G1 races.

So, before backing Inspiral at very short prices in future, my advice is to be somewhat cautious. She probably is the real deal, but.....
By:
A_T
When: 23 Jun 22 14:11
You can look at those times in a different way - Inspiral finished the last furlong half a second faster than any other filly in the race. In the Gold Cup the first 4 all covered it within 0.2 secs of each other. Inspiral produced a blistering finish off an even pace - the stayers were all sprinting home after a crawl.

Thanks Sandown for showing where to find the sectionals.
By:
impossible123
When: 23 Jun 22 14:17
Indeed. I think with give in the ground I'll back Homeless Songs over Inspiral. And, that's nothing to do with being no-Gosden fan.

Let's hope the duel could take place in The Falmouth.
By:
duffy
When: 23 Jun 22 15:18
HS was visually mightily impressive in Ireland but the couple of horses in the race capable of top class form other than her have shown that they need 12f to do it, nothing in that race is looking likely at being top drawer over a mile so she ran away from a couple of decent horses over too short a trip and others have let that race down subsequently.
By:
cryoftruth
When: 23 Jun 22 16:20
I doubt Homeless Song is as good as Inspiral but it’s quite possible,

Timeform have Inspiral 125p and Homeless 123p. It’s a question of which makes more progress. I think Inspiral has more potential but it’s only a biased opinion and it’s not like Tuesday let the Irish 1000 Guineas form down is it, by winning the Oaks albeit a bit fortunately. 

Actually both may well appreciate further, both by Frankel and both with half siblings who stayed further. I would imagine it would be quite a race if they were to meet say in the Nassau Stakes or even better in the Judmonte International at York, where either might humble Baaeed.
By:
cryoftruth
When: 23 Jun 22 16:25
I think Inspiral’s finish at Ascot was sensational to look at. It was an amazing turn of foot, the likes of which I have rarely seen. She gave pretty decent fillies about a 16 length thrashing over the last half mile. The replay of the last 5 furlongs is reminiscent  of the stuff Enable used to dish up.
By:
A_T
When: 23 Jun 22 16:50
yes I'm not sure how common it is in G1 races for the winner to cover the final furlong half-a-second faster than all the other runners
By:
Sandown
When: 23 Jun 22 17:18
If we want to evaluate horse races as well as we can, we have to use data, and not just rely on our eyes alone. Fortunately, sectional time analyses are now available for all our courses using ATR and Racing TV, so the concerns we had before using a stop watch, can now be more accurately measured using electronic measured and GPS.

During Ascot week last week, the fastest finishing times (last 2f) were posted by these horses
Baaeed 23.1 (8S) Tues
Nature Strip 23.35 (5S) Tues
Bradsell 23.52 (6S) Tues
State of Rest 23.58 (10R) Wed
Bay Bridge 23.58 (10R) Wed
Thesis 23.78 (8S) Thurs
Kyprios 23.0 (20R) Thurs
Claymore 23.58 (10R)Thurs
Inspiral 23.87 (8R) Fri
Rohaan 23.61 (6S)

Obviously, weight carried and going differences need to be factored in, as well as distance & R v S course, but in terms of sheer speed assessment, our eyes are not as reliable as electronic timing.
By:
duffy
When: 23 Jun 22 17:29
and the pace set throughout
By:
Figgis
When: 23 Jun 22 17:52
How many of the opposition fillies arrived there in peak form? Probably Spendarella, but I don't know how good she is. The third and fourth had put up rubbish performances in a substandard Guineas, and Tenebrism was extremely weak in the market. While Cachet certainly wasn't a good Guineas winner her form had already taken a dip in France. Not too surprising only fourteen days after the hard fought Newmarket win. She certainly didn't run to form at Ascot. Despite it being a substandard Guineas I don't believe Honey Girl would've finished a close second there.
By:
A_T
When: 23 Jun 22 19:05
I don't see the point trying to apply an objective approach if you're then going to throw in arbitrary opinions on which horses you think ran to form and which didn't

also a list of final furlong furlong times from all manner of races from 5f to 24f tells us little - the first 4 in the Gold Cup ran faster times then Inspiral for the final furlong - but she ran faster times for the preceding 4

Inspiral ran the final furling 0.5 secs faster than any other horse in her race (which had classic winners) - how often does that happen in a G1 flat race? unbeaten now in 5 and daylight behind her every time
By:
Figgis
When: 23 Jun 22 19:17
if you're then going to throw in arbitrary opinions on which horses you think ran to form and which didn't

It's a direct question (and my own answer) to the people who keep saying she hammered a top class field.
By:
Sandown
When: 23 Jun 22 21:30
how often does that happen in a G1 flat race

Every time the winner comes from the rear which is frequently. 0.5 second is only  3 lengths so its easy enough to answer for yourself by looking up the records using RP results page. Often the front runners have gone too fast a pace and run much slower in the final couple of furlongs. Its that which creates the illusion of a horse winning by flying home. That happened in Inspiral's race at Ascot, but please believe me,I am not knocking Inspiral, just pointing out that relative performance differs from absolute performance.To be a top class horse she still has around 7lbs to find on collateral ratings and many well do so. But she won't need to if she only meets inferior horses. Time will tell just how good she is.
By:
A_T
When: 23 Jun 22 21:57
winning the race by 3 lengths is not the same thing as covering the final furlong in a time 0.5 secs faster than every other horse in the race.

agree that running an even pace is what made Inspiral look so good. Which begs the question why bring up all the other Ascot horses finishing 2f times without any context.

I would be genuinely interested to know how often at level weights a horse has covered the final furlong of a G1 flat race 0.5 secs faster than all the others. I suspect not easy to find this data.
By:
Sandown
When: 23 Jun 22 22:22
RP comparison of Top Speed and Collateral ratings for Inspiral.

Please note that she has not yet posted a G1 TS figure which would have to be in 3 figures (110+) really to qualify. STo adte, 94 is her highest TS rating.

Her RPR of 123 is a G1 figure posted for her Ascot run. On this evidence, I have no qualms about rating her as a G1 horse but she has of yet not put up a time performance which indicates that she  might be capable of reaching a RPR rating of around  130 which she would have to, to qualify as one of the best ever, but she is not far off say 126 RPR  which would put her in the top bracket.

For comparison, Enable rated 117 TS 129 RPR,Zarvava 123 TS, 129 RPR, Treve 115 TS  131 RPR. At the moment, Inspiral is someway off on TS and until she proves that she can run at least 20lbs faster, I can't in all honesty rate her as "sensational" but people will believe what they want to believe,  which is fair enough.



DATE/CSE        DIST. GNG.    WGT / HDGR        OR    TS    RPR



17Jun22 Asc rnd C13yG1F 284K    1m    GF        115    94    123

08Oct21Nmk row C12yG1F 284K    1m    GS        110    94    116
09Sep21Don str C12yG2F 64K    1m    GF        104    91    110
22Jul21San C12yLF 24K    7f    GF    9-0        —    70    104
26Jun21Nmk july C42yMdF 4K    7f    GF        —    43    88
By:
Figgis
When: 23 Jun 22 22:31
I would be genuinely interested to know how often at level weights a horse has covered the final furlong of a G1 flat race 0.5 secs faster than all the others

If we're talking about sectionals that are out there in the public domain then there isn't a lot we can point to. Nevertheless we only need to go back 2 years to the very same race to find that Alpine Star ran .4 sec quicker than all the other fillies. A decent filly but hardly a world beater.
By:
Sandown
When: 23 Jun 22 22:37
AT. I gave you context, distance, course, going.

The point of looking at the final 2f is that is where a horse is asked for maximum effort and is a good metric for speed. Stamina is another issue. The point of using the top 10 finishers, irrespective of distance run, shows that Inspiral's finisghing kick was not exceptional. There were 9 other horses which finished faster.

Of course, the overall time matters as well and there were 12 other horses on the week  which put up a higher TS figure, taking into account age, distance, going, weight carried. Inspiral looked good because all the 11 others around her were slowing as much she was finishing fast.
By:
impossible123
When: 24 Jun 22 16:21
The Gosdens reckoned more to come from Inspiral before the race. This time no %age intimated. Inspiral was visually impressive but will need to prove it against Homeless Songs, I think, hopefully in The Falmouth.
By:
cryoftruth
When: 24 Jun 22 20:38
It's a direct question (and my own answer) to the people who keep saying she hammered a top class field.

I suppose that’s right but …

She has utterly hammered every field she has met, surely something she has hammered has been a bit quicker than a tree???
By:
A_T
When: 24 Jun 22 20:49
I'm not sure what horses are expected to be in a race restricted to 3yo fillies? I mean the winners of the guineas, cheveley park and pouliches plus an unbeaten America horse isn't too bad is it? Miesque and Zarkava have retired I'm afraid.
By:
Figgis
When: 24 Jun 22 20:54
surely something she has hammered has been a bit quicker than a tree

Again you're confusing the statement that a filly is a good up to scratch Gp1 filly with the implication that she is subpar.
By:
penzance
When: 24 Jun 22 21:16
Inspiral put a GP1 field to the sword on her
seasonal reappearance.She's an excellent filly.
By:
Sandown
When: 24 Jun 22 21:24
I think that we can all agree that Inspiral is an excellent filly, a G1 filly. The issue,though, is whether she is a top class G1 horse who can be put into a super bracket. Not yet , is my view, but if she can improve considerably on that performance, which she might well do, then my view will change.
By:
A_T
When: 24 Jun 22 21:39
agree - until raced outside it's age and gender class noone should be crowning any super horse. But Inspiral does look very exciting - would be good to see her vs Baaeed in the Sussex Stakes but she doesn't appear to be entered. Falmouth Stakes would just be a penalty kick.
By:
Figgis
When: 24 Jun 22 21:53
I suppose it depends on how long you've been following the sport or how short your memory is. I remember similar fillies to this, Gossamer for example, being prematurely acclaimed a superstar off the back of visually impressive performances but no better than par for the grade in substance. The punters who think Inspiral is as good as the colts might be proved right. Well done to them if they're correct. After all, it's all about being ahead of the market rather than following it. It's just that with all the hype she's already going to be priced like she's the real deal, so her backers will need to be very, very confident in her ability in order to beat the book.
By:
penzance
When: 24 Jun 22 22:13
Gossamer were'nt 5/5 for a start,she got well btn
in the Guineas,then won in Ireland.
By:
Figgis
When: 24 Jun 22 22:36
I know Gossamer was beaten in the Guineas, but she obviously didn't run her race. I don't hold one poor run against a horse, or put too much store in remaining unbeaten, especially when the horse in question has only raced once as a 3yo. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, just giving my own. Personally I hope everyone thinks she's the second coming and backs her accordingly, the more the merrier Wink
By:
penzance
When: 24 Jun 22 22:45
Who's saying she's the second coming?
She's unbeaten in 5 and some on here are giving
her the credit she deserves.
By:
Figgis
When: 24 Jun 22 23:08
I've said she's an up to scratch fully deserved Gp1 filly, that's credit enough for me. Some are saying that isn't praise enough, which must mean they think she's exceptional by Gp1 standards. I'm just saying I don't believe she is.
By:
penzance
When: 24 Jun 22 23:30
Yep,the games all about differing opinions.
   GL
By:
A_T
When: 25 Jun 22 10:07
Personally I hope everyone thinks she's the second coming and backs her accordingly, the more the merrier

so Figgis you'll be laying her next time?
By:
Figgis
When: 25 Jun 22 10:56
Depends on her future races and if her betters have hard races beforehand. But as things stand if she were to meet HS or Coroebus I'd be backing against her with confidence.
By:
impossible123
When: 25 Jun 22 16:52
Despite Gosden indicating Inspiral would come on for the race she did look fit by the paddock watchers. Maybe she was fitter than what her trainer had alluded to prior the race.
By:
cryoftruth
When: 29 Jun 22 11:40
Hope to God the owners insist on the best jockey - Frankie riding her.

Actually hope that they remove her and send her to a stable that shows an amount of decency and loyalty to their jockeys rather than shouting in public and sacking them willly-nilly.
By:
impossible123
When: 29 Jun 22 14:46
Indeed. I hope so too. I'd not want my horses to be trained by Gosden junior when there are more experienced and proven trainers around. Cheveley Park did remove their horses from Elliot post that "photocall".

But, Gosden snr is a very smooth and at times economic talker, and persuasive individual.
By:
brandyontherocks
When: 29 Jun 22 19:23
And proven top drawer trainer.
Whether you like how he has handled this situation. The job he does, a paid trainer, he is very good at.
By:
duffy
When: 30 Jun 22 16:25
I fully expect Dettori to ride Inspiral and that is precisely why Gosden used the term sabbatical, it's because he knows that to all intents and purposes the relationship is done accept for one fly in the ointment and the term sabbatical suggests that Cheveley Park weren't on board when Gosden would have put it to them to jock Dettori off.
By:
impossible123
When: 30 Jun 22 23:05
If so, I think Dettori would have been told either by Mr Gosden or Cheveley Park. I think "sabbatical" was Mr Gosden's attempt at saving face after his immature and unprofessional public criticism of Dettori post Ascot. But, it still meant Dettori had been let go (or sacked).
By:
impossible123
When: 02 Jul 22 16:56
Mr Gosden still unwilling to commit a jockey for Inspiral next week. Bloody heck it's only horseracing!
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