Brig .. are you keeping the faith in Cracksman Voltigeur then all in for the Leger? I'm loading up.

Not sure about the Leger though. Wasn't sure he needed 12f so I will go for the GV first and then watch the Leger.

Yes Howellsy, impossible to say for sure how much the interference affected COM but can't say I saw much to take encouragement from. I think it's now fairly safe to say they're crap

Barney Roy has only had 5 races and it is a little over 9 months since he made his racecourse debut so I can still seem him improving.

I doubt they'll go for the Sussex Stakes now though given he did n't appear overly comfortable with the dip at Newmarket and he definitely was n't found wanting for stamina today, the first two pulled nicely clear. I'm not sure Godolphin would want to run him against Ribchester either.

It may sound a bit daft but I'd consider a pair of blinkers for the winner, he looked like he thought he'd done enough at the end having travelled through the race like the best horse to my eye.

Juddmonte surely the target for Barney Roy now - but I agree that's shaping up like a tougher race than today and he'd need to improve to have a winning chance.

Incidentally first blood to the older horses over the 3yos. Hard to see where this generation are going to win the big G1s against their elders - especially if Almanzor and Minding come back sound.

What a confusing result. I first thought the start and early pace and the fast ground suited the miler types but the third horse is not necessarily a miler. Stoutes claim that Ulysses is potentially a 12f horse I think is wrong, we will see. I think the Derby horses were inconvenienced by the fast ground and the slow early pace. I think Barney Roy will get a strongly run 10f because he led just past the line and was not stopping. CoM's best form, apparently, was making the running on yielding ground. I thought Eminent would have gone forward but was given a strange ride having been strangled for the first 2 furlongs. RM wasn't hard on CoM at all because he knew he couldn't go the pace at the end on that ground. The last two turning in finished wide and filled 1st and 3rd places. The 2nd horse also challenged wide. As I said a confusing result.

I wouldn't give up on Eminent just yet, he could be the type of horse that needs a lengthy absence to show his best. I'm not convinced that he needs softer ground either. Proberley they September stakes at Kempton would be his best chance of a decent prize. Will be a better 4yo.

As for the race, it was upto scratch. A very good finishing time, with 2 very good horses putting 3 lengths between them and the 3rd. Of the 2, I felt Barney Roy has had the harder race, was already at work when Ulysses came cantering by him, but fair credit to him for fighting back. Ulysses reminds me of the od forum favourite, Harchibald...immense talent but needs to be produced on the line.

All eyes on the International now, which is shaping up to be the race of the season, though I'd still expect Ulysses to finish ahead of Barney Roy and throw in the exciting and progressive filly Nezmaah and we've got a classic to look forward to.

Atm, I'm still not convinced by he 3yos, but Caravaggio does look top notch and wouldn't look out of place in any previous July cup and Churchill, who's 3rd group 1 in 6 weeks was proberley his undoing at ascot.

Ulysses was a worthy winner however, I cannot believe this was a top notch form despite the winning time; Ulysses has a tendency to stop once hitting the front, and the ground was probably quicker than officially recognised as the day progressed, I believe.

CoM and/or Eminent could be extremely expensive to follow at this distance, and I'd not be surprised if Eminent is dropped back to 8f after this and the Epsom Derby. I do not think these field will worry either Almanzor and/or Highland Reel given similar conditions in the Juddmonte.

so it proved that the best form on offer in the race was the 1 1/4 length 3rd behind highland reel, although matched on ratings with
decorated knight in this race, the winner had the better potential for improvement as a 4yo, having gone up to 119 from 116 for its last race. ive lost count of the times on this forum that highland reel has been mentioned as not being a very good horse.
well done winners.

Eminent's connections got what they deserved. They seem to suffer from 'little man' syndrom, enjoying their 5 minutes in the spotlight and making unnecessary jockey changes and overly bullish noises about the horse - reminds me of David Bridgwater.

He has won first time out both seasons so clearly goes well fresh so if he were mine he wouldn't run again until at least September, and then at a lower level to see if he actually still possess the inclination to win. I do feel from his action he would like some cut (or ease) as well so will see how it goes and at least he should be a very big price in the top races (QEII maybe?) - if he isn't I won't be backing him.

He was a very inexperienced horse going into the Derby. His maiden win while promising didn't really amount to much. In the Derby he was already under pressure before the 10f mark so no surprise that he faded and it was the same story in America. He had potential for big improvement this year just like so many Stoute older horses have in the past. The Gordon Richards Stakes win was again promising but didn't really reveal how much he had improved as it was slowly run. The POW was another slowly run race and while a quicker run race probably would've shown him to better effect, in the light of yesterday's win in a faster run race it's stretching credibility to say he got done for stamina in the POW, as even Decorated Knight got back up against him. I've always said it's ridiculous to judge a horse's form as though it's a straight line on a graph. Horses have peaks and troughs and in my opinion Ulysses is currently in the form of his life, 12f will be no problem against similar opposition.

His Derby form with Deauville stacks up as being not good enough

Are you seriously suggesting his Derby run is a representation of his current form?

he beat Dark Encounter in third

As for Dark Encounter, he certainly put up a far better performance than I expected. However, the final time was good, most of the other runners ran to a mark I had them on before, and he was running on past beaten horses. It was a level that he will probably never be able to repeat again. Frontiersman put up a similar run in the Coronation Cup and even though it's more possible that horse has improved personally I'm a bit wary of him repeating it. While the run of Dark Encounter was almost impossible to predict I still wouldn't regard it as a shock, as the form book is full of such performances throughout the years. People tried to crab Harbinger's Hardwicke Stakes win because of the proximity of Duncan, ignoring that every other runner in the race was thrashed. Duncan ran a similar race to Dark Encounter, running on past beaten horses and reaching a level he couldn't repeat again. I reckon it would be just as foolish to downgrade Ulysses because of Dark Encounter, not that he's another Harbinger of course

I look at all of the clues F. If Deauville had finished 10 lengths in front of Ulysses in the Derby then it could be right to claim the bumps he received were costly but it doesn't look as though they were. It is all part of the jigsaw, discount nothing.

its a fact that ulysses best runs have been at 10f, so stepping up to 12f in the king george would be a slight worry for me, also think his 3yo form has no bearing in regards his form now, which has stepped up to a completely new level in his last two races.

By Galileo out of an Oaks winner 12f should be Ulysses' best trip. Stoute has a tremendous record with older horses in the King George - a clash with Highland Reel would be one to savout.

Figgis  - While I have no issue with Ulysses stepping up to 12f I find it strange that you say you wouldn't be interested in him at 10f.

I do not care what Stoute says especially when he uses the Breeders Cup race as a guide. Ulysses beat Ashleyluvs Sugar and Texas Ryano in a photo they were 40/1 and 100/1 respectively and that wouldn't even qualify him to win a Breeders Cup 12f race. Of course if the conditions as far as ground and course are perfect and the opposition is poor then he might manage a 12f Gr1, possibly in Europe but he will have to do it before I believe it.

Well with Almazour now likely to stay in France for the forseeable future with the Arc as the declared main target (will he run in an Arc trial instead of the Irish Champion?) the remaining 10f Group 1's look like being no stronger than the Eclipse to my eyes.

I do feel York will really suit Barney Roy and so have backed him for the Juddmonte (also partly becuase I hope your are right and Ulysses goes elsewhere) but I'd really fancy Ulysses for the Irish and English Champion Stakes double if that was the route they take - though obviously the weather may intervene.

Well with Almazour now likely to stay in France for the forseeable future with the Arc as the declared main target

It would be daft to write Almanzor off so I'm not doing but all this stuff we hear about not being ready and needing more time smacks a bit of a horse that probably hasn't trained on.