Wow, I see I have stepped on some toes here with my assertion Thistlecrack was outstayed by Many Clouds (RIP), the winner of a Grand National and stout stayer, and Thistlecrack would be unlikely to see out the Gold Cup distance and an uphill finish at Cheltenham.

It is not the 1st time and neither will it be the last posters have disagreed with me, but I do not apologise for it, why? Horse racing is mainly about the views of a person based on observation, form, etc; Thistlecrack had been winning his races easily up to a distance of 3m but in the slightly further Cotswold Chase he was found out by Many Clouds despite going the best of all (please do not blame the jockey); Thistlecrack was also leading just before the line - he would have won had it been Kempton - and Many Clouds would have won by a bigger margin had it been further yesterday eg Gold Cup distance.

Thistlecrack did not jump as well yesterday as in the King George - who'd have expected him to given his unforced errors the time before? Nevertheless, fences are there to be jumped especially at Cheltenham, and he did not make errors that cost him the race either yesterday. However, what concerns me the most is his inability to stay out the Cotswold trip better than Many Clouds; what chance would he have of staying the Gold Cup trip (no dolling of fences as a valid reason, please)? If Thistlecrack was in the mid-range of the betting market and not a short priced fav (2/1) opinions would not have been so divided and probably accepted by most.

After yesterday, and the Gold Cup being at Cheltenham Thistlecrack does not warrant a 2/1 price; he is definitely beatable even if jumping the last infront because I believe the extra distance and Cheltenham hill could be his nemesis.

Imp, nobody disagreed Thistlecrack was outstayed but that's not what you wrote - you branded him a non stayer which is different.

I did n't talk about fences being dolled off either, no fences were omitted in yesterday's race to the best of my knowledge - I talked about the chase bends being dolled out to make yesterday's race distance close to the Gold Cup distance.

You clearly don't read other people's posts properly, you don't have the courtesy to acknowledge any of your frequent factual errors and your response when they are pointed out is to just rehash what you wrote previously.

I know I can go on a bit myself but try to take on board what other people post.

You claim to block posters frequently and plenty have been sufficiently exasperated by your contribution to block you - I can only assume your goal is to create threads which contain only an unbroken series of your own monotonous monologues.

ReaselHeath
There is no disputing the fact that Thistlecrack was outstayed and beaten by the ill-fated Many Clouds in the uphill Cheltenham finish despite the former going the best prior to and post last fence, and leading before the line over 3m in the Cotswold Chase.

For a horse that had been winning easily and repeatedly over 3m I'd be very concerned as a backer at short odds that Thistlecrack was outstayed in the Cotswold Chase - a race just over 1f further than he had been accomplishing in - this fact cannot be be dismissed for any reasons eg dolling off bends (the over-rans in the Stayers did not use the omission of hurdles as an excuse), jockeyship, ground, etc.

I cannot recall asserting Thistlecrack was a non-stayer but repeatedly reiterated Thistlecrack was outstayed in the Cotswold Chase and unlikely to stay the Gold Cup trip over 1f further given the new info at hand; I have also refrained from making comparisons about the courageous Many Clouds to others in the race and/or Gold Cup betting market constituents.

You (and others) may block me if you wish as I'm not afraid to be different to most - I'm used to and excelled at that in my profession; I like a non-monotonous, forward, incisive, thought provoking and challenging approaches from contributors otherwise the thread could be extremely boring and one-sided hence non-financial performing.

If yesterday's race was uncomfortable for Thistlecrack, his connections and/or supporters/backers the impending Gold Cup will be no different with the exception that there will be more able runners ready and willing to replicate the Cotswold Chase scenario/experience to him, I have little doubt.

Rease , the thought crossed my mind that it might be Mr Hunt winding us up. Could it be him again?

ReaselHeath
A wind-up merchant, I'm certainly not, but neither a sit on-the-fence individual either - I'm clinical in my decision making; I'm neither a follower of hyped/unknown horses nor high profile connections.
That was my initial reaction - 6 mins after the race and post sad episode about Many Clouds. Nothwithstanding, I still believe the Gold Cup distance and the hill finish at Cheltenham will be an insurmountable task for Thistlecrack post the Cotswold Chase.

All yesterdays performance did  is show he is not unbeatable as some posters on here ridiculously tried to claim.

He is still a leading player just in a wide open year.

Big oppose....he did not stay today's 3m Cotswold Chase - 3m 2.5f in the Gold Cup, even lesser chance, in my opinion.


By all means oppose Thistlecrack, but at least do your basic homework first before posting. Your inaccuracy about the distance is cringeworthy.

Jumping is the name of the game and Thistlecrack was not very fluent, which cost him many lengths and energy on Many Clouds. Yet he still managed to make it a ding dong battle to the line. The fact that Many Clouds gave his heart for that performance should not be overlooked.
Smad Place was 17L back in 3rd. This is the horse that gave Native River 11lbs in the Welsh National but managed to get within 10L
Then we have Silviniaco Conti further behind, beaten 20L

So, the fact that Thistlecrack beat these 160 rated horses by 20L could look so impressive. I believe Many Clouds dug so deep that he not only gave his life, he also ran to his best mark ever.

all well good looking to oppose thistlecrack but it also comes down to what you have running for you in the gold cup, hence his price... personally i think challengers are thin on the ground unless the ground were to be soft and i'm not sure the glue pot ground did for him yesterday myself, he certainly didn't jump with much fluency out of it but i thought he got a good education myself jumping in behind...it should also be remembered the 3 danger horses in the race love that ground

i'm still not actually sure what people were expecting yesterday, i didn't have him as far clear on ratings yesterday than the odds suggested and they had to drop him in so to educate him before the big day ahead, what yesterday did show is he is no world beater but i see no reason why he can't still run a big race come the day, he'll need to jump much better and i think better ground will be key for him but that also means he will have to jump at speed

i see no problem with him staying myself, jumping will be more key for me he will need to jump faster and really it will just come down to him being good enough...coneygree won a gold cup because he was just good enough to beat those horses, that day on his ideal ground





impossible 123 you are different to most posters in many ways i agree, just a shame you can't be different on another forum... i have a dog next door who likes to bark, it's constant at times when the owner is out but it is always the same annoying tone, you remind me of him in many ways, the way you ruined the arc thread last year will long live in the memory, in fact most threads you post on are ruined, it's just junk and without reasoning...like your opening post here, that you'll lay the horse come the day at anything around evens when you could lay it at 11/8 ante post at the time just doesn't make sense in fact nothing does where you are concerned

Zen
why use Smad Place as a gauge last year he was in the form of his life and got beat 17 lengths in the KG and 38 lengths in the GC.
I think Thistlecrack can run 3 miles very very fast but that is what I see being his downfall.

Just to add Jasey

Smad Place excels in soft ground so the KG and GC will have seen him outpaced against the real cream who bounce off the ground.

How is Bristol De Mai assured of staying better the Gold Cup trip. The furthest he has run is exactly 3 miles on an easy flat track?

I would add that I don't think the jockey was unduly hard on him after the last either - and rightly so, the big day is in March.
MC certainly got more encouragement.

I agree about the soft ground but I am sure the ground he lost by not jumping as fluently as the winner just as they were starting to really race ultimately cost him victory. He was only beaten a head and every slight error costs energy, especially on sapping ground.

Easy to forget what a tremendous race that was.

Two horses giving their all,closely matched on the day,horse racing at it,s very best.

If the blue riband comes anywhere close,it will be a race to savour.

On official ratings there was 5 lbs between the pair,on ground probably more suited to the winner.

Very solid yardstick in 3rd was beaten out of sight.

The front two potentially ran personal bests,depending on how we interpret ratings.

Thistlecrack lost nothing in defeat,5th race since late october,long time to be at his peak.

Despite Tizzard sweeping all before him this season,I get the feeling this is the yards best horse,by some way.

Torn between getting experience into the horse,or wrapping him up,especially turning 9,he has taken on

allcomers, a credit to connections.

Certainly made the race more intriguing from a punting point of view.

Likely better ground,and a 6 week break,he remains the one to beat.

I'm sure he would have won jumping as he did on the day on faster ground, so if his jumping improves for this experience and he gets faster ground on Gold Cup day he will take the beating in my view.

I don't see why he would have jumped less fluently on faster ground.

If they are comfortable with his stamina then they should be gunning him from the front, if he's as classy as connections and many others think then the likes of CW and BDM wouldn't be able to prevent him leading (not if they didn't want to compromise themselves) then it's a case of jumping and galloping them into the ground and trusting the horse to do what they all thought he could.

They are not going to ride Thistlecrack forward for the simple reason they know he would almost certainly be a spent force well before the finish. Chances are he will still be well beaten if he is held up, but not quite so badly. For all those saying he stays why do you think they rode him that way on Saturday? Good ground for the Gold Cup would just mean they would go that much quicker and actually increase the stamina test.

He stays the trip perfectly well, whether he will be outstayed up the hill by a stronger stayer is another matter.

And that experience told us he struggled to cope,and his jumping suffered.
Backers best hope he has learnt quickly,especially any who may be lumping on at current prices!!