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Coral Eclipse 5th July
Coral Eclipse 5th July
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Temperatures could reach 30C today and 31C Friday at Esher. Chance of rain Saturday morning. As Figgis suggests, ground more likely to be fast than on soft side of good. KH coming back to 10f on fast ground? Should suit fast ground horses unless there is a downpour.
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If there is rain it will be interesting to see if the clerk overstates the moisture in the ground (as has happened before) and if connections take their cue from the description or race times.
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Well in the absence of the obvious winner it has to be between Night of Thunder and Kingston Hill. Apart from The Fugue the rest may as well not turn up. And I cannot have The Fugue. Her classic form is woeful the Oaks third has been franked by a single Listed winner from all of the runners. And her Guineas form is little better. I couldn't have Al Kazeem et al for any money so the 3 year olds will have to be a poor bunch to lose here. Mukhadram just isn't good enough and Verrazano - Tulius just isn't anywhere near Group 1 form.
A 2 horse race for me: Night of Thunder or Kingston Hill. God help us if they aren't good enough. |
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Her classic form is woeful the Oaks third has been franked by a single Listed winner from all of the runners. And her Guineas form is little better.
Brigust, she didn't do too badly against your PoW odds on good thing  . It's very odd how you try to hold any horse's form down by what it achieved as a 3yo. Do horses never improve as 4 or 5yos in your interpretation of form? |
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God help us if they aren't good enough.
Us? No, just you after you've done your dough after another poor reading of form |
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I think Treve was injured according to connections so that cuts no ice and is a hollow statement. Of course they improve but through Al Kazeem she really shouldn't be anywhere near good enough to beat slightly above average 3 year old classic contenders.
Tell me which form lines I should be following then F. Magician-Indy Point, Dominant - Dunaden, Al Kazeem - Trading Leather, Venus de Milo - Secret Gesture, Zagoora - Marketing Mix, Was - Shirocco Star? Let me bow to your superior form reading? |
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"She has had tests all over the place and they found she has got minor arthritis in her back," added Head-Maarek on Monday evening.
"It means she will go away and have a rest for a few days, and then she'll come back and we'll start again. It's nothing serious." Ah, you mean that injury. Let me bow to your superior form reading? You can do that after the race, or maybe you'll find another excuse . Australia missing the gig and Kingman being aimed at the Sussex. Any excuses for those? |
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Of the horses that have finished next to her whether she has won or been beaten they include Dunaden (not won since), Indy Point (not won since), Al Kazeem (not won since), Was (not won since), Timepiece (not won since), Shirocco Star (not won since), Venus de Milo (won Group 3), Twirl (won Listed race). Basically crappy form in crappy races races. As I have said if the 3 year olds fail to step up to the plate in style we will be having a long season.
Don't change the subject, this is the Eclipse thread. |
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Don't change the subject, this is the Eclipse thread.
I'm not, you said Australia was sure to run and anyone who thought otherwise didn't know anything about racing. As I have said if the 3 year olds fail to step up to the plate in style we will be having a long season. You think the 3yos are good enough to bet on against this opposition, you've just said so. However, if they turn out not to be good enough then it can't possibly be a case of you underestimating the older runners, perish the thought, it will be a case of the 3yos being a let down. It's interesting that if your pre-race thoughts turn out to be wrong on a race you still see yourself as an authority on what happened after the event. Ever thought of applying for a job on ATR, RUK, or CH4? |
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You have not changed F. As soon as someone proffers a point of view you try to insult them. Grow up ffs. This is a horse racing forum where opposing points of view are discussed. If you were right all the time you wouldn't be on here so trying sticking to the point. I have my views and I am right sometimes and wrong sometimes I can live with that, why don't you?
In my opinion this is a less than top representation of the older horses. Unless of course you think The Fugue, Verrazano (won nothing in this country), Mukhadram (won nothing of note), and Tulius (won a poor Group 2 beating Montridge who has been hammered 3 times since) are a fair representation of the older horses. Personally I think Night of Thunder, Kingston Hill, War Command and True Story are a reasonable representation of the younger generation. If they fail to beat this bunch then I do think the 3 year olds cannot be a great lot. Nothing is certain in life or gambling that is why when I (or even you) back something there is always someone there with an opposite opinion and prepared to lay. |
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You have not changed F. As soon as someone proffers a point of view you try to insult them.
You mean like saying anyone who thought Australia was far more likely to go to the Curragh than Sandown didn't know anything about racing? |
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Did I say that?
You were correct about Australia running in the Irish Derby but in fact you were wrong. He should be running here. AOB and JOB have made no attempt to hide the fact they think he is a 10f horse and I suggest they only ran him in the Irish Derby in an attempt to shore up the reputation of the race. A race their own strategy has worked to destroy. And the ignominiously withdrew Geoffrey Chaucer. I have already made my thoughts clear about the effect Coolmore has on British racing and going for the Irish Derby while avoiding the Eclipse has done nothing but strengthen that view. I suggest a vast majority of trainers would have gone for the Eclipse and he should be running on Saturday. Now how about getting back to the Eclipse? |
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Did I say that?
Yes You were correct about Australia running in the Irish Derby but in fact you were wrong. He should be running here. I said where he would most likely be running, not where he should be running. I suggest they only ran him in the Irish Derby in an attempt to shore up the reputation of the race Coolmore's commitment to the race was pointed out by numerous posters on here, you chose to ignore/dismiss that at the time yet offer it as an excuse now. Very lame. |
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Oh great -it's the 'Brig and Fig' show again.
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Excuse! What the eff are you talking about? I was wrong. I thought AOB would run in the Eclipse and he didn't. I was wrong. It happens. You may never have been wrong but I can't help that. I've just spent 3 weeks on a complex roof with blokes who wouldn't stand for your silly nonsense so stop being a woman and move on.
Now ffs get back to the Eclipse. |
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I've just spent 3 weeks on a complex roof with blokes
It's alright for some. I've been stuck here having to watch Royal Ascot, the World Cup and Wimbledon. |
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I was only joking about you being a woman, you don't have to go and prove it ffs.
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What's the matter H? Cat got your tongue? Or is it stuck somewhere?
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Now why don't we get back to the Eclipse? I have laid my cards firmly on the deck and see no reason to change them.
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Just to clarify, what exactly are these cards that are laid firmly on the deck? Are you backing Kingston Hill, NOT or both? Or are you laying the others that you consider a poor bunch? The reason I ask is on the SJP thread you started out saying you were definitely laying Kingman but at the end you seemed to be patting yourself on the back as the race was a 2 horse race "as expected".
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What I (don't) enjoy about these so-called discussions is the relative absence of relativity. Things are either Black or white, never grey, when in fact 99.9% of the spectrum between the two extremes is some kind of black with a dash of white or white with a dash of black.
eg it has to be between Night of Thunder and Kingston Hill. Apart from The Fugue the rest may as well not turn up. And I cannot have The Fugue. If only racing were that simple to predict  |
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just letting you boys get it off your chest brigust, although i have been in the same boat in regards all this sport, its relentless!!
have been struggling for form recently and am just getting my confidence back brigust, so wouldn't want to curse anyone's selection at this stage although i am not keen on the varian horse who i see has been heavily backed today, i will say that...am keen on one but am just happy to let the market take full shape before fully committing but everything i've put on here recently has been poor judgement i'll admit that, so have no wish to seem confident why are you so against the fugue by the way brigust?...i think she has improved from last year myself and it was a very quick time last time, in fact that is why i am against her, backing up here tbh...she is certainly better than last year imo just whether you believe she can back up so quickly, she did after york last year...but i am certainly not against her from a form point of view against these horses in fact i think she has plenty in hand myself i just thought she had a hard race last time |
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Sin I couldn't have War Command or Toormore before the Guineas so I see no reason to change my mind now. They just don't look good enough. It looks like a two horse race at this moment with only my belief that Kingman has stamina issues pointing me in NOT's direction. So I can back NOT and Kingman as a saver at around 6/4 or back both at around 3s on. I can back Kingman at 5/4 and lay Kingman at 4s on in running. I can lay Toormore and WC at around 9/2. It just depends whether or not the prices change on the day.
Take your pick Figgis. Now can we get back to the Eclipse or have you a shopping list list to complete and the washing in the washing machine? |
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H I get your point. I'm only jesting.
I like The Fugue as a mare but really feel that if she beats this set of 3 year olds it doesn't augur well for the rest. So I have to oppose her. Her form is OK but not great and distinctly beatable. I don't necessarily go with the stats except that I think the Eclipse is more likely to be a specific target than the POW so a better quality turn up. I could be wrong about that but that's what I think. In short if The Fugue is in the shake up the rating of 135p given to Kingman (I have read somewhere) will be wide of the mark. |
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So I can back NOT and Kingman as a saver at around 6/4 or back both at around 3s on. I can back Kingman at 5/4 and lay Kingman at 4s on in running. I can lay Toormore and WC at around 9/2.
Yes, a lot of cans and maybes there. Well I don't think Kingman will stay, I will be betting on it, so I will be laying him. I have a plan and it doesn't include Greville Starkey or laser pens. As opposed to the assertion stated earlier. It's what's known as covering your arse, probably due to all that time you spend with blokes on roofs |
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What in the name of f u ck does it matter what I backed? If I told you I won or lost it wouldn't matter one iota. I couldn't care less what you backed in the race and have absolutely no intention of pouring over your threads to find out.
So why don't you stop making yourself look a complete **** Figgis ffs. This is an Eclipse thread so why don't you get out of tradition and deal with the issues. Or are you incapable of doing that? Mind you there are so many tongues stuck up your jacksie it's a wonder you can write anything. |
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OK Alleged?
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You said you've laid your cards firmly on the table. I still can't see them.
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^You're probably too busy watching the women at Wimbledon Figgis.
I will make it easier for you Figgis you probably have the housework to do after you have sifted through your numbers. 1) Do you think The Fugue will beat the 3 year olds? 2) If not all of them then which ones do you think she will beat? 3) And if not The Fugue then which of the older horses will beat the 3 year olds? How is that for starters? |
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You're probably too busy watching the women at Wimbledon Figgis.
I will make it easier for you Figgis you probably have the housework to do after you have sifted through your numbers. Reminds me of something I saw Vic Reeves say once on tv, how he thought it was weird and ironic that lads at school called him a puff for wanting to watch Legs&Co on TOTP. |
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I can see how that hit a chord with you Figgis. Truth hurts I suppose but you cannot help it.
Now why don't you trying answering the questions? |
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Actually it might've been Pan's People
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Not Pan's People. It's no good you trying to go all butch. It's all too late for that. Now take off your apron and answer the f ook ing questions.
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Now why don't you trying answering the questions?
I've placed no bets yet and, unlike you, haven't claimed to have laid my cards firmly on the table, although I think most people could probably already guess my hand. |
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You are dutching NOT & Kingston Hill right, Brig?
I have backed Mukhadram eachway ante-post but that was before the draw was made. |
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At last something resembling a sensible response. However I'm sure you have a view perhaps you have decided to keep it to yourself. Don't be shy now. I promise I won't go through the posts and remind you what you thought. After all there are still a couple of days to go so things may change.
Sin I have backed KH at 7s and NOT at 7/2. And a small personal wager on Trading Leather at 25s. Sadly I didn't get back until last night so probably missed all of the good prices. I couldn't have Mukhadram in the first 4 Sin but what do I know? |
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I promise I won't go through the posts and remind you what you thought.
There will be no need as I generally own up (to myself and others) when getting it wrong. |
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I will take your word for it Figgis. Just this once.
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