Horse Antepost
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09 Dec 12
15:25
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28 Jun 10
A couple of thoughts part related to his run yesterday but distinct enough that I wanted to get others views on a different thread:
From memory that was the first time I've seen the horse truly settled and not trying to pull for his head. Credit to Santuaire for that because he is the first horse who has been able to go a pace which was fast enough for Sprinter to settle. In doing so it allowed Sprinter to show us how classy he truly is as if we didn't know.
Secondly, it seems to me that there still needs to be a great deal of maturing before they could even consider stepping up in distance. Until he learns to switch off I think it unlikely he would stay a King George trip.
Not that he needs to. If all he ever is is a 2 miler then we can enjoy him for what he is but it would be wonderful if he could take his sheer brilliance through the distances and eventually end up in a gold cup.
From memory that was the first time I've seen the horse truly settled and not trying to pull for his head. Credit to Santuaire for that because he is the first horse who has been able to go a pace which was fast enough for Sprinter to settle. In doing so it allowed Sprinter to show us how classy he truly is as if we didn't know.
Secondly, it seems to me that there still needs to be a great deal of maturing before they could even consider stepping up in distance. Until he learns to switch off I think it unlikely he would stay a King George trip.
Not that he needs to. If all he ever is is a 2 miler then we can enjoy him for what he is but it would be wonderful if he could take his sheer brilliance through the distances and eventually end up in a gold cup.
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6 years old
unbeaten in 6 starts over fences wins impressively every time jumps like a cat beautiful athletic physique massive figures with TF, TS, RPR and soon BHA collateral form franked anything is possible and we would be foolish to think all possible eventualities have not, or will not, be discussed at Seven Barrows |
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GREAT HORSE.
If he ever wins a Gold Cup I'll give the game up. Not a hope in hell. |
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Could potentially win multiple Champion Chases
Why step up there's no need to |
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by the time he's 8 or 9 they may find he settles travels and jumps at any trip just like Kauto Star did
he's only just setting out ffs, he could do anything yet so why be so belligerant about making up your mind now? why step up in trip? that's obvious really isn't it? glory, prestige, prizemoney, just to find out, for the sport, because you want to try and win the KG or CGC in your life and are never ever going to have another horse as good as Sprinter Sacre if you live to be 100... there are any number of reasons that connections might be dreaming of winning more than QMCCs... the horse will tell them if he is up to it though |
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Ah ok fair enough
Same goes for Big Buck's I guess, but it's too late for him now |
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it's all speculation at this stage, he has a long long way to go
I imagine their whole focus will be to win all the races they've laid out for him this season and if he does it will be time for a big sigh of relief and then to formulate a plan for the next couple of seasons |
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Just giving an opinion and making a statement,Judorick.
I fail to see how Kauto Star's career has any relevance. He was winning Graded races in France over two and a half miles as a 4-y-o. He was always going to be tried over further. Different type of animal altogether. |
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The beuaty of the NH Game is that trainers are less afraid to test their horses over varios distances for fear f losing stud value.
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fair enough expressing an opinion but to then say 'I'll give the game up' and 'not a hope in hell' basically means you are saying only your opinion is worthwhile and whatever anyone else says is irrelevant because you know exactly what is going to happen
comparing careers is informative even if the horses are not identical - no two horses are of course - but when they demonstrate massive ability early the comparisons are worthwhile because they highlight the possibilities One Man was another worth comparing - he won a Hennessey, QMCC, King George Sprinter Sacre is a massive talent and the spectrum of possibilities at this stage is extremely wide yet people are already pigeon holing him after 6 chases. We should be more open minded |
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I am expressing an opinion I strongly believe to be right and emphasizing it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.
Being a punter is all about taking a view about horses.It's no good waiting until events have happened. One Man is another whose career doesn't resemble Sprinter Sacre's at all. He started off over long distances and gradually dropped down in trip over the years. |
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In fact when One Man won the QM it was the first and only time he EVER ran in a chase over 2m.
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I'd be very very surprised if Sprinter Sacre is seen anywhere near his best over 3 miles. He could maybe win a King George one day but only through class. He's never looked a stayer in my eyes. They may try it later in his career but I hope they stick at 2 miles for a while. I find 2 mile chases so much more exciting than the staying races anyway.
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We all agree that he has the potential to go down as an all time great, with a horse with this ability wouldn't it be natural to contemplate taking on top horses from various distances, if he can't do it then drop him back, it shouldn't hurt him or detract from what he achieves over 2 miles, as time goes by the question will be raised more and more especially if every race turns out to be a procession with nothing turning up.
We're all going mad about him now simply because yesterday we were all filled with anticipation at the prospect that there might be a challenge to him or the excitement that he could snuff out a potential challenger, if sanctuaire did not run then aside from the sight of him in the flesh,the race itself would not have been half as exciting. He is too good of a horse not to at least try with. Imagine looking back on his career after 15 odd walkovers over 2 miles , or looking back over it with a couple of king georges thrown in for good measur. |
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As someone else said I don't understand this obsession that every great horse must prove himself over every distance.The history of the KG is littered with top class 2 milers who tried and failed.
The only one I can think of who pulled it off was Desert Orchid who of course subsequently showed he could stay virtually any distance. |
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Kauto Star was a top class 2 miler flyingbolt
 granted he had been proven over 3 beforehand at Haydock  |
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I just wouldn't want to be left wondering, we're a fickle bunch, mark my words after a number of two mile processions there will be a few dissenting words that will filter through to seven barrows, dare I say it, it may even get a bit boring!!! He is a truely great great horse but i would feel they've perhaps left something behind if they don't try, why is there an obsession with stepping up a great horse, that's simple, if it works he will be even GREATER!!
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Exactly my point,FFT.
He was top class over 2m but had already proved he was at least 10lb better over 3m.  |
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Could prove to be the greatest 2 miler ever
Whether he'll be great over 3m remains open to opinion for now. Personally I wouldn't really see the point of it because he's so good over 2 (and i'm fairly sure he could transfer that to 2 1/2m at Aintree) Moscow Flyer was never tried over 3m and nobody crabs him for it (although I wasn't into racing at the time so can't speak of the debates back then) and he's regarded as a legend. The biggest worry for me regarding Sprinter is the likely lack of opposition he'll face, and whether he can achieve the high rating he appears capable of by slamming a reliable, high class yardstick (which Sanctuaire is not) Whatever happens, we have a superstar on our hands. The old guard have gone (Denman/Kauto) and a new one is born |
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Bolty -
"GREAT HORSE. If he ever wins a Gold Cup I'll give the game up. Not a hope in hell" I agree with you about the Gold Cup but would you be so confident as regards the King George? PS - you did say the same about Synchronised in the Gold Cup and you said you were a big fan of the horse   We ALL get things wrong now & again! |
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Sprinter will have to slam his stable mate or Sizing Europe to see his rating go as far as it could,not sure thats likely to happen,hope it does though.
As for his future,as ive said i believe his trainer said he was an out and out 2miler,although things can happen to change their views. To me he looks well capable of winning over further,just a case of how much. Dont forget though that the QM is a top top race and many a great horse is remembered for winning the race,and if he were to win it twice,maybe 3 or 4 times,he would go down as probably the best 2 miler ever. |
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When you've got a once in a lifetime horse(possibly)there must be a temptation to win king georges and stamp him in the arkle class, I don't think you could get that sort of talk if he only won repeated queen mums against nothing much, however grand he may do it.I think after a couple of years and we're all bored
,there may be a situation that he wouldn't any longer be getting the credit he deserves and they may want to go after true legendary status. |
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Get E Mailing Caroline Mould and Nicky Henderson lads.
What happens when Sprinter Sacre wins the Melling Chase in a canter? Surely talk will be of the King George the following season. And what happens if he wins that on the snaff? This horse is special because he is a natural. The horse looks as though he loves it. They need to test him because he could be anything and deep down connections know this. No stud fees to worry about. NH racing is all about `going for it`. |
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^
that's it in a nutshell |
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Exciting times ahead,great to see him come out of his novice season and do what he did on Saturday as it shows us he is still on a upward curve,
Will stay at 2 miles until Aintree then should go for the Melling chase which if he wins as he has done all of his races so far then next season he'll be stepping up to 3 miles imo,if he loses then he'll drop back to 2 miles and should dominate that division unless one of the current Arkle horses shows himself to be out of the ordinary, I respect Flyingbolt's views more than most on here as i have been a lurker for a while and he tends to talk a lot of sense and agree he could just be a out and out 2 miler but the ease with which he has won every chase start has to make connections wonder how far he can go so they must already be thinking of a step up for more prestigious prizes for this beast..No harm in trying and even the very best have blemishes on their records, I have had a nagging doubt about how much he will find when off the bit but right now i'm wondering what can get him off the bit over 2 miles hence he'll surely be stepping up after the QMCC(If he wins in a canter that is) It's just great that we can talk about what may happen next year whereas the flat fans get to surmise what might have been year in year out for their horses which is why i'm a NH fan through and through :D |
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Thing is they may go to Punchestown not Aintree,and thats the 2m Irish Champion i think??
Correct me if im wrong,i know you will!! If that is the case what then next season?,they must surely start with Tingle Creek. Maybe the decision on where to race after Cheltenham is key to all this? for next season anyway. |
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I can't see Henderson going 3 miles with SS for quite some time, the horse looks an out and out 2 miler to me and Henderson already has Bobs Worth and Long Run in the staying division, that's 2 170+ 3 mile chasers. You also have Flemenstar and Sir des champs, Al Ferof and Silviano Conti. You will have to stay 3 miles extremely well if you want to be beating that lot.
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I can see a lot of debate over the coming months and longer over what races SS should go for in very much the same way there was over Frankel. Clearly he is a hugely exciting horse and not being one to have taken much interest in NH until the last few years I couldn't judge on comparing with other greats that will doubtless ensue.
Hopefully NJH will pick the best race race for him, but what irks me ever so slightly is that he will most likely choose a race that best suits his chance of winning the trainer's championship. That of course may mean actually he goes for the right race but whatever, I cannot see him missing Aintree. |
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Joined: Date Joined: 16 Aug 10 | Topic/replies: 2,259 | Blogger: roobuck's blog
I can see a lot of debate over the coming months and longer over what races SS should go for in very much the same way there was over Frankel. Clearly he is a hugely exciting horse and not being one to have taken much interest in NH until the last few years I couldn't judge on comparing with other greats that will doubtless ensue. Hopefully NJH will pick the best race race for him, but what irks me ever so slightly is that he will most likely choose a race that best suits his chance of winning the trainer's championship. That of course may mean actually he goes for the right race but whatever, I cannot see him missing Aintree. Think I agree with the roobuck, especialy as he had the traainer's title whipped from under his nose last season. Suppose it might depend on the state of play at that stage. |
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no eveidence whatsoever to suggest this horse will not get 3miles ,after all he expends so little energy in his races over 2miles and he can settle well off a fast pace . behind slower horses i.e stayers in decent ground , would he not just cruise round off a slower pace ?, yes he shows speed but so did kauto and it did not stop him stepping up in trip , i expect hendo to mop up all the grade 1 2 mile chases for a while possibly stepping him to 2.4 miles in the melling chase and then aim for a king george and if he were to prove he stays 3 mile at kempton then the gold cup would have to be on connections minds .imo of course
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Sprinter Sacre leaves us with the impression he is whistling to himself as he lobs around.
Lobbing around is how you could describe the Tingle Creek. The more he learns his job the more he will switch off. How would we price up Sprinter Sacre v Cue Card in the Melling for example? 1/2 Sprinter Sacre would be smashed into. 1/3 Sprinter Sacre still generous? 2/7 Sprinter Sacre? The bottom line is that we seem confident that 20f will be right up his street. The King George must be on the agenda someday.. |
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Which ignores my second point which is that this was the first race in which he has truly settled. It may be he is now settling better in his races but for now I'd lean towards the view that Santuaire was going a pace which Sprinter couldn't pull off. If that is the case and he hasn't yet fully learned to settle then he will be pulling Geraghty's arms out over 3 miles off a much slower pace and is unlikely to get home.
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nothing whatsoever imo to say that this horse will not get 3 miles ,he travels so well in his races and expends little energy that to me he is wanting further already ,kauto statrted off at 2 miles and got 3mile+ with no problems and kauto was prone to hit one or 2 ,sprinter sacre has hardly made a mistake in all his chases so far ,would he not just cruise along in a slower paced 3 mile race ? i expect hendo will mop up the grade 1 2 m chases and step him up to the 2.4 melling chase and then aim for maybe next years king george and if he gets 3 miles then the gold cup will be on connections minds .
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sorry ignore last post didnt realise the same post went through earlier ,computer froze !
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PFN says he won't be taking him on again and even HDB is looking to dodge him with Sizing Europe.
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EO
I'd lean towards the view that Santuaire was going a pace which Sprinter couldn't pull off. BG was judging his own pace, Ruby zoomed off at 12 f pace. Sprinter Sacre was lobbing along at a constant 2 mile pace. Could he crank it down a gear to lob along at 3 mile pace without burning his energy up? I`m not sure he needs to, however takes him on over 3 miles will surely want to make it a stamina test and their will be a similar pace to as what he was running over 2 miles. Over 3 miles he could well be 20L up over 20f and can just coast home. He saves so much energy by the way he jumps. I don`t see him coming under pressure with 4 furlongs to go. He isn`t just going to stop. I think against a top top 3 miler he could get tested but what do we have? A bunch of 170 rated animals at best . See what the next season or two produces. |
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Sprinter didn't settle straight away in the Tingle Creek he was tugging for his head until Sanctuaire kicked right on and if you think he'll get a lead like that again you truly are bonkers. All last season nothing could go his pace. If you think he will settle over 3 miles anytime soon you're bonkers. It's one of the horses main strengths apart from anything. There is talk of him lobbing along which it does look like as he's a big horse but he's going extremely quickly. So many people with opinions on this horse now which is inevitable but they don't know the horse one bit.
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^
Those are all the reasons why I think that cue card has zero chance of getting home on boxing day..zero. |
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festivalfanatic 10 Dec 12 11:47
PFN says he won't be taking him on again and even HDB is looking to dodge him with Sizing Europe. U av a quote for this? |
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AG - "The bottom line is that we seem confident that 20f will be right up his street. The King George must be on the agenda someday"
That's EXACTLY as I see it mate, though there are some who prefer to use Henderson's quotes (he's an out & out two-miler) used for HIS own convenience to keep his chargers apart, than to use their own eyes and experience of the sport! There is NO WAY ON EARTH this chaser will NOT stay 20f, so I'm not gonna be patronised by someone quoting his trainer who clearly has a loaded agenda!  This is one of the major problems of housing all the best horses in just TWO stables...it's not good for the game when it gets to such an extent! I thought last season that Tidal Bay could have been worth a try in the Cheltenham Gold Cup (this season will be much tougher) as after Long Run, I thought it was a weak (though very competitive) renewal and ANYTHING could get in the shake up! Next run for Tidal Bay...Whitbread mauling!!! The Giant Bolster astonished everyone (traded around 4/11 I/R) China Rock & Time For Rupert ran huge races and traded very short I/R, so I was correct in my view. These trainers look after THEMSELVES despite spouting what's best for the horse and the owner...they have their pecking order and if there's money to be made with lucrative options (they can persuade the owner) they'll avoid being 3/4/5 handed in a big race. |