I think that's a fair point.

R Carver

I completely agree that it is indeed amazing that posters are judging Sprinter Sacres prospects of staying beyond 2 miles. Then again these debates always ensue with people focussing on anything negative but deciding to ignore behind obvious factors behind the negative.

Also now is the chasing game. The horse saves energy on his rivals every fence. As a hurdler he was not advantaged at all.

Also interesting to remind people that AP was defeated on Sprinter Sacre as well as Kauto Star. He must be jinxed on the superstars.

3 times in a row including an unseat at 1/6

"AP produced him too early"

Interesting concept.

Geraghty has "produced" him at the latest by 3 out in every single one of his wins over obstacles.

"He pulled brutally for far too long early on"

The TC was the first time he hasn't.......because of the tremendous pace set by Sanctuaire.

As for Kauto Star it is general opinion that he was below par that particular season. Of course you only like to put up "obvious factors" if they back up your opinion.

Angel

The fact is that there is little evidence either way about his ability to stay and so inevitably there will be conjecture but what evidence there is suggests that he may struggle to move up to 3 miles. Of course he may and if he does he will be some sight running in a King George.

EO of course 3 miles is odds against but 20f is odds on.

However too many people judging him on his hurdle debut without acknowledging other dimensions of probable reasoning behind his only `steady` effort. Would you expect him to drop anchor after 17f now?

Flyingbolt -

1. I honestly believe AP rode SS to beat only CC in the Supreme (because he thought CC was the horse to beat). Fair enough if you disagree, but i base my opinion on what I saw on the day at the track and not on any particular problem with AP (see below).

2. Regarding the moment AP produced SS, and your comparison with when BJG has produced it - surely the moment a horse is produced is contingent on many factors and a direct analysis with when BJG has produced it in totally different races against different horses is meaningless in this context. Is this not indisputably correct?

3. Regarding the way in which he pulled - in some races, against some horses, a 'puller' will get away with it; in other races, against other horses, he wont. Is this not indisputably correct? I think it was harder for SS to get away with it in the Supreme than it was at, say, Fos Las. Is this not reasonable?

If AP had the chance to ride SS in the Supreme again, I think he might do things otherwise. I do not blame AP for the horse pulling but i think the horse pulling meant he had little left when asked at the end (when AP produced him).

Regarding Iron Man AP, I do not think that was his worst moment but it was not unspeakably bad (far from it really; I think he gave Darlan a worse ride actually this time round) and he is a jockey I rarely am critical of. He is a jockey I have never criticised on here. I adore and admire the guy and think 99% of the criticism of him is rubbish and unfair. I am not saying anyone on here has a 'betting shop mentality' but much of the stick the guy gets is from frustrated favourite backers in the bookies. If I think he did not give SS the best ride ever in the Supreme, it would fall into the (approx) 0.0001% of less than flawless rides he has given horses over the yrs.

I do not think he did anything wrong on Kauto Star, as you say, he was not 'right'. I'd have to review the Newbury / Denman race again (I cannot recall what conclusion I reached at the time) but do not think he did anything wrong (from vague memory) in the CGC on him. I think he gave Masterminded a poor ride one day at Ascot (from vague memory) but the horse still won. RC

Havent seen him b4 last week, but it looked like a 2 horse race and he was untested to win. Very much a lay next time owing to punter over reaction.

Sacre will always be overpriced.