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2,000 Guineas (2013)
2,000 Guineas (2013)
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Agree that a Cecil outsider brings memories of JQ...
Anyone with longer memory than me know if he ever sends no-hopers? [I missed his golden age] Or indeed anything about the owners? |
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http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/classics/2013/2013_2000_guineas_preview.htm
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I'm not sure I understand all of that. So if the lower the DI factor is best for stamina, a horse that won the Arc and Derby should really have been winning the Nunthorpe?
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Having started this thread in August I would like to wish the Hannon team all the best with Toronado who is a wonderful horse with a superb temperament. I also think Van Der Neer will give a big showing.
With Dawn Approach still involved it looks like being a brilliant race. Good luck to all. |
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I remember Bolkonski winning the Guineas at 33/1!
Trained by Sir Henry he was more promising that the thing he runs today. However I cannot let Henry's 2000 Guineas runner go unbacked. I backed Dawn Approach at 16's and Toronado at huge odds but personally can make a case for both losing. Moojahim is still interesting on good ground. Although I have saved on cristoforo, he looks dodgy with check pieces. |
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Figgis I am sorry but I have no more insight or strong views about DA and Toronado. To some extent form is almost irrelevant when a 2 yo champ from last season meets a trial winner.
DA might still be the champ, but you can pick holes in his form. Toronado won a 4 runner Craven but looks very strong. The betting suggests there may not be much to choose. I cannot split them - sorry. If pressed I would just go for Toronado. I actually have the best 2000 Guineas book ever having backed them both at huge odds - well 40 and 16. However I hope Moojahim wins! |
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For those who forget the Henry glory years, it used to be possible to make a lot of money by backing Cecil horses blind.
I recall he once ran 8 2yo's before one lost! He trained a crack 2yo called Diesis who won the Dewhurst by about a furlong. In the paddock before the race the horse was playing up. Henry caught his eye across the paddock and Diesis looked sheepish and calmed down. Nobody got or gets into horses' heads like Henry. His training of stayers was amazing. Le Moss was a true stayer. He won the stayers triple crown from Ardross, with no more than 3 feet the total aggregate distance in all 3 races. The following year he trained Ardross and won the same triple crown again. Ardross was quite unlucky notto win the Arc as well. |
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Well, possibly I'll end up eating my words tomorrow but, decent enough colt that he is, I think people have gone overboard about Toronado's Craven form, I don't think it was that much better than an average winning Craven performance.
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figgis eats his words tomorrow (nap)
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I agree with Figgis here re: Toronado.
How many trial winners go off 2/1? Plenty of horse have looked good winning Greenhams and Cravens. He's awfully short in the betting by any stretch |
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Best of luck to everyone, the wait is nearly over. Would be delighted if Van der Neer gets in the 3. This really fast ground should suit. If not would like to see R hughes win an english classic, would be well deserved
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We all have our hopes and dreams until they race. It is building up nicely. Good luck.
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yes good luck everybody.
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Decided that the current price of Toronado was too good so have layed off some of my position to green up on the race.
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The firmness of the ground looks to have been greatly overstated, if the time of the first race is any reliable guide.
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Seemed v quick in the Sprint didnt it
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Johnny Murtagh: "It's good, fast ground. There'll be a few excuses but if you get beat, the horse wasn't fast enough"
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Yeah the sprint was fast, possible that the ground is drying rapidly or it just could be due to wind strength/direction changes. Either way, I agree with Murtagh's statement.
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Got to say he was very impressive. Well done all backers
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Was never in doubt since last June tbh.
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Looks like a good horse. A worthy Derby fav.
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Penalty kick
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Only thing I got right on this years 2000 Guineas was taking a place lay on Toronado for Epsom before the race. Otherwise, some shocking punts have gone awry!
Well done DA backers. 6/4 Fav for Epsom now. |
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wd figgis,Bjg,Graeme, anyone else.
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The Craven winner was the subject of sustained market support and plenty of stable confidence heading into the first Classic of the season but weakened inside the final furlong to finish fourth.
Richard Hannon junior said: "It looked like developing into a match a furlong out but our horse didn't really come home, it was very disappointing. "Obviously the winner is a very good horse and well done to Jim Bolger, he's pretty good, isn't he? Profiles Toronado (IRE) R Hannon "Hughesie said he felt like he's been in a two-mile chase, he felt legless, he was just going up and down. "Whether there's something on him, I don't know. We'll do all the tests to see if anything is wrong but apart from that, I didn't see too many excuses to be honest. He was beaten by a very good horse fair and square." |
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There was a doubt unclepuncle. When Godophin got hold of him, if they shipped him out of Bolgers it wouldn't have been clever. There was a period of doubt during last summer of their intentions. Apart from that though...
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Won the Guineas by 5 lengths - a superb effort by the trainer, getting him to win first time out after he won the first 2yo race last year in Ireland.
Not sure what he beat though as I am sure Toronado never ran his race. My first guess at a rating is 125 for Dawn Approach. |
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It was a cracking performance on my clock, the rain was obviously progressively getting into the ground judging by the latter races. After the mighty Frankel, whose Guineas performance was in a league of its own, of the last 10 Guineas winners Sea The Stars win was the next best, but I have DA narrowly ahead of that by 1lb. Sea The Stars went on to improve again on that, I don't know if DA can, but whether he does or not, that was the third best Guineas performance I've seen in the last 20 years, bettered only by Frankel and Zafonic. Undoubtedly Toronado's finishing position is not a true reflection of his ability, but he travelled perfectly well for most of the race, in my view he just paid the price for running competitively in a race run at a much stronger early pace than he'd ever faced before in his short racing career.
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Toronado is a 6f sprinter imo
 Then again I said similar about Canford Cliffs after he also finished third in the Guineas  |
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Classy performance from Dawn Approach (again)
 Track & ground no probs then eh. |
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The pace looked frantic but the clock says the race was slow half a second. I thought DA looked
really powerful the way he accelerated and I don't see why he shouldn't make a smashing 10 furlong horse - which is what Vincent O'Brien reckoned you needed for an Epsom Derby. I think he'll be slight odds on if he gets to the course OK. Have they said what else he'll be aimed at? |
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How many Group 1 sprinters does High Chapparal get? Toronado would be against the grain in that respect. Maybe he just got found out today as his 2yo form isn't strong at all. We'll see what they do next, but apparently Van Der Neer is Dante bound so maybe Toronado will wait for Royal Ascot.
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Not yet Pete. Decision in a few days or so i'd imagine.
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150/1er in 2nd
Ok beat 5 lengths, but, still 150/1! I have to ask, what do you guys think about that? |
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slim shady was about 5 lengths behind frankel...albeit in a different fashion lol
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Good going Argosey
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He is out 2day at the shops ^^.
Spotted in one of those cash lending shops After that gd call on Dawn Approach  "Some mothers do have em" |
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Slim Shadey was not 5 lengths behind Frankel! Double that at least!
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17.5L to be precise
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Whats 12.5L between friends.
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