yeah one remains unbeaten but she only ever won in france, right handed courses, and only ever raced once away from longchamp. that counts severly against her when measuring greatness (imo)

she never faced different tests like sts, travel, straight mile, diff courses, she had it easy in comparison to sts in that respect.

i too agree sts had a worse trip in the arc(not that it means anything) but only for his amazing speed he was able to switch out off the rail as the pacemakes came back thru the field, that the point it could have gone t!ts up for any other horse, only a freak could have made up the ground from that point, he goes from having to make up 7L to being in the lead in a matter of strides after that punishing season...astonishing and imo zarkava couldnt have done that(imo).

only once faced the opposite so she wasnt exactly there for all comers unlike sea the stars who appeared in the juddmonte, eclipse etc.... to anyone that wanted to show up. he had a far more gruling campagin.


she was all out to beat dar re mi and i think coming down the outside seems to be the thing to do a la dacing brave, her arc, and even nijinsky even tho he was beaten, youmzain in sts arc, i think a case could be made for that theory.

its just waffle at the end of the day as we'll never know the answer but i gotta fight the champs corner

i reckon he'd have picked her up and carried her myself, would even hesitate backing him against her, no doubt he'd be fav looking back at both their carrers, there far more substances to his form imo and he won the far more difficult races open to a wider range of opposition and she had fillies to beat bar the arc of course.


no contest sts everytime. he'd beat her. your turn

Trashing and pocket talking Graeme83. ... you had several digs mr high and mighty. Are you going to ignore your wrong-doings and reside on a thread where you cant get anything wrong re the future as it is about the past?

Zarkava, out of Zarkasha, out of Zarkana, out of Zarna, out of Zahra, and who last month foaled a colt by Sea the Stars (first crop) is a bit more than a top trump statistic.

And this Goldikova thread might have had a bit more credibility if you had stepped up with it at the beginning of last season when all the talk was of Rip Van Winkle mopping the floor with her.

Rip's eclipse form wasn't good enough to win an eclipse but he's dined out on it ever since, competent horse though he is.

Let's stick to the facts rather than fame by association. He had his chance to beat her and he blew it.

[btw, I should really put Petite Etoile in that Zarkava bloodline but it doesn't begin with "Z"]

prima donna.

of course i believe he could win. didnt he not settle for most of the arc? look how long he pulls for his head, losing places, having to switch out and power away from that field, i reckon dar ri me and youmzain are decent yard stick for both as both were seemingly running at the peck of their powers at the time.

what did zarkava beat that was so great? a 3yr old goldikova? with all due respect she beat her at a track where goldi is 4/7 and look at her record everwhere else, practically impossible to beat, zarkava didnt beat the 4yr old goldi who is a different animal altogether.

sure look at this, no doubt it put pay to her chances

«    
1
5         Zarkava (IRE) 30/100F     3     9-0      A De Royer-Dupre     —     *     *     »
b m Zamindar (USA) - Zarkasha (IRE) (Kahyasi)     Christophe Soumillon
     
Held up, 8th straight, headway 2f out, led 1f out, pushed out and ran on well
    

«    
2
1     2     Goldikova (IRE) 9/1     3     9-0      F Head     —     *     *     »
b m Anabaa (USA) - Born Gold (USA) (Blushing Groom)     Olivier Peslier
     
Unseated rider at stalls, reluctant load, stumbled start, recovered, 5th straight, headway 2f out, 1 1/2f out, every chance 1f out, ran on same pace

zarkava never beat anything special, and the fact is sts can be ridden anyway they want, hes far more verstile than zarkava, u honestly think sts would not have been able to give 4L at the start of the vermille? come on man, he would have won easily as zarkava, its not like she won it on the bridle. and it all depends on the pace of the race anyway. lets not forget here, she only faced males ONCE, on her home track. how do we know it wasnt her ascot? the long straight suiting her running style down to the ground, takes her awhile to get going too, she wouldnt have won sts arc if she'd have gotten his identical path, but he'd have just run by everything in hers like she did, after his season to power away from those horses was just incredible.

all comers, she raced fillies her whole life except for one race, u cant  get a balanced assessment of a horse like that as they were never going to trouble her were they? sts had obriens to deal with running races slowly, fast at diff courses, he proved it everywhere against everyone, she proved it once.

id say she wouldnt have been able to hold off rip and conduit in the eclipse, put her in the place of sts having to take up the running fully 2 and a 1/2 F out , have sever doubts myself.

There are plenty of horses that it can be argued would have won a particular race in another year. It's a redundant argument, as is "1st run of the season".

If his reputation is based on his running on the eclipse then he should have run in the next year's Prince of Wales, not the Queen Anne. The indisputable fact is Goldikova is the champion miler, not Rip, who she beat on the way to retaining that crown.

yeah im not arguing rip vs goldi, i know shes better, i love the horse, im just saying rip did not produce his form in the queen anne, he burned paco boy off easily before that. he still wouldnt beat goldi on a good day but he'd go extremely close.

im arguing rips run in the eclipse regarding the form of sts,as in another year that run would have been good enough to win the race but he was against a freak of nature who actually quickened again.

sure rips 2 sussex stakes runs and his win against twice over and byword are his best runs. destroyed paco boy that day, even goldi wouldve had her hands full with him. he wasnt a miler either imo, fooking coolmore, they shouldve given him more chances over 12f.they wanted a speed stallion.

Good we all have opinions mine for what its worth is Zarkava is better than ANY of the above,both her and STS are greats put it this way if both Zarkava and STS had a match race over a mile,mile and a quarter,or 12f the result would be the brilliant filly would lower the colours of STS.I also think that if she faced Goldikova again at Goldikova's best trip of a mile then once again Golikova would finish 2nd,Zarkava had a fantastic finishing kick far superior than any of the above.
A few on here say to forget the fact Goldikova was beaten over 10f as she is a miler,well lots also say how good STS was to win the Juddmonte over 10f he was but lets not forget Mastercrafstman was also a miler running over a trip to far with the only other runners being pacehorses for Master',could we think it was just a soft race for STS to scoop up?

^^^

I have a few STS foals yes and a couple of mares have gone to him this year,also have seen Zarkava how I wish she was mine!

*left handed (apologies)

^^^^^ as stated I agree

2008 was a vintage year, New Approach, Henrythenavigator, Ravens Pass and Zarkava. 4 proper horses. Even Duke of Marmalade. I think New Approach would have won most of the races STS did, look what he did to Twice Over, we never saw the best of him. Henry and RP coming 1-2 in the BC Classic with the mighty Curlin in behind. 4 proper racehorses. Vintage season.

neill d Joined: 19 Aug 09
Replies: 1658 21 Apr 11 21:20 
2008 was a vintage year, New Approach, Henrythenavigator, Ravens Pass and Zarkava. 4 proper horses. Even Duke of Marmalade. I think New Approach would have won most of the races STS did, look what he did to Twice Over, we never saw the best of him. Henry and RP coming 1-2 in the BC Classic with the mighty Curlin in behind. 4 proper racehorses. Vintage season.

ridiculous statement! its not about winning one or two its about winning every single one, thats what separates the good from the greats, what sts has never been done and might never be done again...ever, its not impossible.

take frankel for example if he fails in the guineas thats it , its over, the 'greatness', the record, it can never be fixed, sts achieved greatness.

again zarkava only ONCE faced males, ever, it was a closed shop, she was looked after by he trainer. the fillies she beat other than dar re mi and goldikova achieved nothing and goldikova improved vastly as an older horse.


why mention new approach anyway, they never even raced each other, its not like she beat him. she never travelled to the uk to race the males, why not?

she prob would have been beat thats why.

This d1ck ilikewavingatbuses is always really wise after the event. Frankel was just an over-hyped horse when the evidence was there he was special for everyone to see ffs. Take his views as you would the betting shop know-it-all.

gerard showing early doors on this thread he suffers from a disease known as cluelessness

eric_morris Joined: 27 Jun 10
Replies: 2950 22 Apr 11 06:28 
This d1ck ilikewavingatbuses is always really wise after the event. Frankel was just an over-hyped horse when the evidence was there he was special for everyone to see ffs. Take his views as you would the betting shop know-it-all.


eh we're comparing the careers of 2 retired horses

turns out he has serious comprehension issues too

Good point and remember Zarkava was a GR1 winning 2 y'old STS was not!

A-T, i'm not suggesting that at all, I was simply responding to the post from ilikewavingatbuses although I doubt it would be a forgone conclusion if STS and Zarkava had ever met. Is it such a big deal she only raced on 2 Parisean tracks, she only had 7 races after all and although she was a highly strung filly (many are) that should not detract from her brilliance. If Henry Cecil had trained her under the same circumstances, winning 5 group 1's including the fillies triple crown, an Arc (all with a tremendous turn of foot) and remaining unbeaten in 7 before retiring to stud, many on here would be calling her the best filly ever. I've been lucky enough to see many great fillies in my lifetime including Dahlia, Oh So Sharp, Dunfermline, Pawneese and Golikova to name a few, but Zakarka was the best of them in my opinion.

Zarkava's programme was faultless for a Prix Marcel Boussac winning 3yo filly. Where else should she have gone?

There was plenty of talent around in 2009 but it became obvious very early in the season lining up against STS meant place money only.