Horse Antepost
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
To keep with the theme of our Frankel thread, let's forget all the trashing and pocket talking. Let us not mention the fact that she's a better horse than the wonderful Zarkava. Let us instead concentrate on the probable final season of one of the greatest horses to have ever graces a course, or should that be more than one course. She has run and won big races in three different countries, over different tracks and with sometimes a different race tactic. She quickens up as quick as you'd like, and can be ridden with restraint, up with the pace, at the front and then pulled back in to quicken up again. Everything about the horse has been just right as was the case with Sea the Stars, the great handling of trainer and jockey, the composure of the horse and the wonderful silks. They haven't even shirked a challenge when they don't get the perfect ground. She is the ultimate race horse, and 6 years old she's still going to be gunning for the big races. This is going to be her final year of walking up the red carpet, before retiring to stardom. My favourite flat horse.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 130
|
By:
Goldikova
 Got a couple of nice pics of her from the Breeders Cup. Might go this year to say hello to her again |
|
By:
Would like to see a bolder European campaign from her - they run her in too many soft Group 1s. Would be a disappointment if she doesn't face up to Canford Cliffs a couple of times.
|
|
By:
Goldikova - thread to talk about the Equine legend
Graeme83 This user is online. Graeme83 Date Joined: 21 Sep 07 Add contact | Send message 17 Apr 11 12:38 Joined: Date Joined: 21 Sep 07 | Topic/replies: 6,638 | Blogger: Graeme83's blog To keep with the theme of our Frankel thread, let's forget all the trashing and pocket talking. Let us not mention the fact that she's a better horse than the wonderful Zarkava. If only she had got the chance to prove it...[;)] |
|
By:
She did twice & got thrashed by a superstar..
|
|
By:
I agree with most points relating to Goldikova but i've seen both run (@ Longchamp) and feel that Zakarva was probably the better filly. Sadly she wasn't kept in training but don't forget that Zakarva beat Goldikova TWICE and beat her easily by 4,1/2L and 2L.
|
|
By:
A one track superstar.
|
|
By:
Geoff beat me to it ;-)
|
|
By:
2 tracks Greame
|
|
By:
One race was over 10f which isn't to Goldikova's liking. She's a miler. The fact remains that to gain legend status you have to run over numerous courses, and in Goldikova's case numerous countries. Goldikova clearly made the transition through the ages, something which maybe wasn't guaranteed with Zarkava. Goldikova is one of the few horses who get chase racing like affection from the fans, because she wasn't retired after one season. Zarkavas arc win was the first time i remember being amazed at a winning performance. She was superb, but i take into consideration longevity and variety when deciding who i prefer.
|
|
By:
Zarkava was a terrific filly but her campaign was far too conservative for my tastes - never raced away from Paris, only raced colts once. Certainly can't compare her to Sea the Stars who took on all-comers in 3 different countries.
|
|
By:
Don't think she'd beat Zarkava at any trip myself, and I think Canford Cliffs will beat her if and when they meet, on the basis of how close Paco Boy was getting, he had her all out at times and the Hannon's would consider CC a much better horse.
|
|
By:
I have a feeling that Paco Boy was very well prepared for that race, and Goldikova needed it a bit more. She still won all the same. Would you not like to talk about the other races involving Gold and PB, or just the one he got closest in ?
|
|
By:
I would think it quite likely that Canford and Goldikova never meet on the racecourse
|
|
By:
You never know. Maybe they could send CC to the Rothschild or Jaques Le Marois. If they want to beat her so bad then go and get her. They're the challengers if you like. She's a 6y/o mare and he's a 4y/o colt so you'd imagine he would be favourite.
|
|
By:
I've little faith that CC will be boldly campaigned - especially after last season when for no good reason as far as I could see he failed to appear after Goodwood. And Goldikova's season will be largely about aiming at the Breeders Cup again I suspect. Goldie won't come for the Sussex or the QEII so the Moulin might be the only possibility.
|
|
By:
A_T Joined: 27 Jan 06
Replies: 1619 17 Apr 11 12:56 Would like to see a bolder European campaign from her - they run her in too many soft Group 1s. Would be a disappointment if she doesn't face up to Canford Cliffs a couple of times. they avoided her yeah? by sending paco boy, she showed up, canford wasnt sent. i think its fair to say that zarkava was a better 3 yr old who raced right handed on the same track bar once,longchamp, a track coinceidently that goldikova always seems to perform poorly at. goldi has raced at many tack and its fai to say she is a far better older horse, really blossomed as a 4 yr old +. of zarkava will always have the 2 wins over goldi but i have severe doubts she would have beat (4yr old)goldi over a mile on good ground, id be backing goldikova anyway. zarkava was some horse but she was neve sent to the uk, i think this was due to temperment, she was a bit of a madam and id imagine she prob would have been beat away from home soil. this is what makes the achievements of sea the stars even better, look at the tracks he went to, all that travel a TOP G1 a month, 2 classics, left or right handed, didnt matter. this is why he is better. i love goldi but she will have a hard season this yr with canford, hes prob the best miler she will have had to face so far. its a pity shes 6 as this will most likely be in canfords favour but she is a machine and if the race was tomorrow id still back her to beat him. |
|
By:
Canford Cliff won't be going for the Rothschild, it's for Fillies and Mares
|
|
By:
he got the chop![:(]
|
|
By:
Entered in the Queen Anne
|
|
By:
Good stuff A_T. Maybe they just follow their own schedule and take on whoever runs in the same race. Her main target will be the Breeders Cup mile i'm sure. I don't subscribe to the notion that they avoid other horses. They have already proven they are willing to run her in conditions that don't suit. Therefore as she is the more illustrious horse, the onus is on others to try and beat her.
|
|
By:
Goldikova is coming home like an express train...Goldikova is goina have to switch out a little she does so...Butttt Goldikova is just scintilating Goldikova is something special...Goldikova and Olivier Peslier win it again!
I have this commentary on my ipod..Sad....Sad but true |
|
By:
Graeme83 I agree connections don't duck opponents - they have their schedule in mind and stick to it. However there are too many G1 mile races for fillies - the Falmouth Stakes and the fillies only race at Deauville should not be G1.
Whereas with 12f races it is clear which are the most prestigious races in Europe it is less clear over a mile. I like to think that the QEII is the mile championship of Europe but the French clearly don't feel that way. The QEII is too hard a race close to the Breeders Cup so we won't see Goldikova there. So for Goldikova it'll be a race in France, the Queen Anne or Falmouth Stakes, Rothschild, Marois or Moulin, prep race, Breeders Cup Mile. Queen Ann perhaps the only chance to see her vs Canford Cliffs. |
|
By:
This thread makes me laugh full of sweeping statements like this,
Graeme83 17 Apr 11 12:38 Let us not mention the fact that she's a better horse than the wonderful Zarkava. Lets not forget the fact that Goldikova could not live with Zarkava. Its easy now to only see Goldikova as the best because she has gone on to be very good,BUT each time they met Zarkava whipped her ass,and just for the record imo Zarkava would scalp STS as well. |
|
By:
I wouldn't pay any attention to one of races when Zarkava won over 10f. I've already said Goldikova is a miler, who could stretch to 9f in a race that suits. We each have our own criteria for what makes the better horse. Maybe the USPGA should hold tournaments at Augusta every week to get Tiger back to number 1 and attract more interest in the sport.
|
|
By:
Well as you say she is at her best at a mile BUT Zarkava thrashed her at a mile and very easily too!
|
|
By:
I'm aware of that. As i said we have our different criteria. I take variety and longevity in to consideration. I really liked Zarkava and still think she's brilliant. I just think her career is tarnished by being retired without variety. That's all it is. I was thrilled when she won the Arc.
|
|
By:
Yeah sure I know where you're coming from,I agree its a shame Zarkava was retired at 3,Goldikova is fantastic but for me she is not as good as the other.But I do think Zarkava was showing signs she may of been getting close to having enough at the end,if she were mine I'd have taken the same view as the Aga,but who knows Zarkava may of just got better like Goldikova we will never know that for sure.
|
|
By:
Zarkava top class filly but not one of the real greats only raced colts once and never raced more than a 20 minute drive from her stable. Being unbeaten is overrated when you are campaigned so conservatively - it's not like she was Ribot.
Compare that to the real modern greats like Dancing Brave, Sea the Stars, Montjeu, Lammtara even the Aga Khan's own Sinndar who were prepared to take the fight right into the den of the enemy and came out victorious. |
|
By:
Just some thoughts. Always wanted to comment on all the collatral form so guess nows the right chance.
1. Zarkava would've defeated Zenyatta quite cosily had she competed in the Ladies Classic at Santa Anita. I am confident of this and always have been. I dont care what anyone says. Zarkava wouldve hammered her that afternoon but I can understand where the Aga Khan was comming from. To be fair she didnt have anything else to prove. 2. Thats not to say Sea The Stars would've done the equivalent in the Classic 1 year later. You might think. I mean if I think one Arc winner could've beaten her then why not another especially by virtue of winning a pound for pound better quality Arc than Zarkava. But what you have to take into account is the sheer amount of improvement Zenyatta showed from 4 to 5 plus the fact she was trained specifically to win the Classic as opposed to the griding schedule STS had. She easily improved by more than a stone and was in just simply magnificent form in her works in the weeks leading up to the race. I think this shows the benefits of training and racing predominantly on an artificial surface as opposed to the more attritional dirt which caused Rachel Alexandra's deterioation. Not trying to stir up something between STS and Zenyatta....They are both equally great. Just think Zenyatta wouldve been anyone that day at Santa Anita. 3. Zenyatta wouldve beaten Rachael...anytime, anywhere. 4. Always wanted to see Goldikova vs Zenyatta over an intermediate trip. 9 furlongs. Shouldve happened last season. Shame no one stateside could get the Rachel v Zen debate out their heads an actually pit these two against each other. Reckon it wouldve been nip and tuck with all results possible. I wouldn't dare try to call the result of this match up. It wouldve been epic. ..... That is all really. Would like to a Frankel vs Goldikova showdown in the BC Mile at the end of the season. |
|
By:
A_T 19 Apr 11 18:55
Zarkava top class filly but not one of the real greats only raced colts once, So what! The fact is everything she ran against she thrashed,taking some high class scalps along the way INCLUDING Goldikova!Says it all really. |
|
By:
One could say that STS never raced anything as good as Goldikova, Zarkava did and won handily, we know she was temperamental, but who is to say she definitely couldn't have travelled, Its hardly her fault she lived near Longchamp is it. She won the Arc beating all the best 1m4f colts in Europe, she beat what subsequently turned out to be the best miling filly in Europe twice, what more could she have done. Graeme, I can see you value longevity, but what about versatility..., isn't that the true hallmark of greatness, what puts Kauto above Denman for example, or STS himself above say pure milers like Canford or 1m4f horses like Workforce. If you look at the bare form of what STS was doing, apart from RVW, he wasn't beating anything special, but if you add in the fact he remained unbeaten and won over multiple trips, that is what cements his greatness imo. I think there is a certain sentimentality attached to Goldikova because of how long she has been around, but the facts are she is a pure miler, doesn't run in all Europe's top mile races and is beatable over a mile as we have seen when circumstances aren't favourable.
|
|
By:
I'll try and reply to the points i can, Neill. I don't think it's accurate to say Sea the stars never raced anything as good as Goldikova or Zarakava. From recollection i recall him beating Delegator, Mastercrafstsman, Rip Van Winkle, Conduit and Twice Over amongst others. Indeed i think he beat the same horse to in to first place to win the Arc that Zarkava did. I wouldn't reach much in to Zarkava beating Goldikova over 10.5f, despite her being the better 3y/o. It appears we both have credible angles on the word versatility which i can't argue with, you use it in reference to the distances she traveled, and i use it to criticise the fact she never took in more courses and countries, so i'll leave that there. I have to refer back to you criticisng what STS ran against. If we look back at horses careers in heindsight, we will find that many good or great horses never 'beat much' as some put it, because what they beat never gained high rating. Horses like 'Halfway to heaven' and 'It's gino' were placed in her biggest wins. So we can pick holes in anything we want really.
|
|
By:
^^^^^^^They are all fair points Graeme, I do rate Goldikova v.highly also and would consider her a great, just not at the expense of Zarkava.
|
|
By:
makfi beat her in a canter if we're looking at it that way, how far would he have beat zarkava?
 doesnt work that way unfortunately. |
|
By:
what sts did is highly unlikely to be replicated within our lifetimes!! machine, impossible to say how good he is and how high his mark could have gone. he needed better horses to race in order to show it.
|
|
By:
Agree STS a true champ - unlikely to see a better horse for many years. There have been countless flashy Arc winners but what Oxx's colt did was astounding. The Guineas, The Derby, a Group 1 win every month from May to October, all but one overseas, his last 4 open to all-comers. Simply astonishing...
|
|
By:
Graeme83 20 Apr 11 13:38
I'll try and reply to the points i can, Neill. I don't think it's accurate to say Sea the stars never raced anything as good as Goldikova or Zarakava. From recollection i recall him beating Delegator, Mastercrafstsman, Rip Van Winkle, Conduit and Twice Over. None of these runners were anything like as good as either Goldikova or the mighty Zarkava,but its good we all see things differently.The fillies would beat that motley crew any-day of the week on any course,only one mind remains unbeaten! |
|
By:
Prima Donna i should have made my post a bit clearer. I meant i disagreed that Sea the Stars hadn't raced horses as good as the ones Goldikova and Zarkava beat. I slightly misinterpreted Neils post. I guess people will just have to decide whether or not RVW was as able an opponent as Goldikova. I think STS had a tougher passage to the Arc than Zarkava. STS had to beat the colts. Zarkava had a plan mapped out for the Arc with races that they knew wouldn't punish her too much. I sure don't think STS met and Zarkana, and vice versa.
|
|
By:
* I sure don't think STS met a Zarkava is what i meant to type there ^^^
|