agree rhinestone couldn't back havant at the prices now(good luck to the people on at bigger) be interesting how shes goes on the quicker ground

There was one key thing which SMP said in his post-race interview after the Chevely last season, and that was (after the spiel about breeding and family not training on etc) if she turns up on the day then he deems her good enough to run in the race and run well.

So what he says about all the breeding stuff, whilst be perfectly true and legitimate, it will be the action of actually putting her in the race itself which will tell us as to what he really thinks,imo.

I agree that last year's form (partly due to the fact that in the second half of the year the ground was frequently riding on the soft side) is a bit muddled and 'still very much in the balance'.

There was nothing odd in the fact that Murtagh chose to ride Together in the Debutante Stakes (in preference to the maiden winner Misty For Me): Together had already shown smart form when winning a Group 3 race in impressive fashion.  It was slightly surprising that he stuck with Together in the Moyglare, as his filly had finished 3 lengths adrift of Misty For Me in the Debutante.  He obviously felt that Together (who later finished a close runner-up to White Moonstone at Ascot) was a lot better than she showed in the Debutante.  But I don't think that this detracts in any way from the Prix Marcel Boussac form.  Misty For Me is clearly a very smart filly in her own right.

eric of course i have watched havants races back,what point was you trying to make?

Price wise selection will appear in Friday's edition of the Racing Post.  Any predictions?  I can't see him picking Havant, now that the double-digit prices have gone, or White Moonstone.  Helleborine must be a possibility, now that she has been confirmed as an intended runner.  Cape Dollar is possible at big odds, but Tom tends to prefer to pick a less exposed filly rather than a solid but unspectacular performer like CD.  There are grounds for believing that we have yet to see the best of Moonlight Cloud, who may appeal to Tom at around 20/1.

I like the look of two fillies that won divisions of the same maiden at Newmarket at the end of October.

Qushchi  - comes from a family William Jarvis knows well- out of Daylami mare  La Persiana who won 5 races and was just short of group class and half-sister to Grand Lodge,  and out of  Habitat mare  La Papagena an unraced daughter of  Magic Flute, who took the Cheveley Park and was the best 2yo filly of her year who ran 4th in the Guineas when favourite and easily won the Coronation Stakes. And as seen by Empowering  who became his first European stakes-winner when she took out the G3 1000 Guineas Trial Stakes at Leopardstown - champion Australian sire Encosta de Lago's stock progress well.

Make A Dance - I think Helleborine is a non-stayer- too much speed in her pedigree and Zaminast will be kept for the Irish version- which leaves Barry Hills to provide Khalid Abdulla's filly for the 1000. Barry hills older horses performed well in Dubai and others are already primed for Doncaster, and April and May are usually profitable months for the stable. Sure it's been mentioned before that she ran in the same race as Ghanaati but there is no doubting her potential. By a sire Juddmonte sold to Japan in November and another sire they did that with was Dancing Brave and he then sired Commander In Chief, White Muzzle and Wemyss Bight!

Both flew up the hill or rise from the dip and either could be a live outsider for the 1000 Guineas Stakes if they run well in a trial.

Sure Helleborine won over a mile on soft but early pace was pretty slow and they didn't quicken up till after the 3 furlong pole and no Prix d'Aumale winner had taken Marcel Boussac since 1988. In the Marcel Boussac Misty made it a good pace and time was 5 seconds faster on much slower ground and there she looked a non-stayer.

Qushchi's dam did all of her winning on a sound surface and I think there is a hell of a lot of improvement in her. Along with Indigo Way she comes from Encosta De Lago's  sole season at Coolmore in Ireland in 2007 and I think his 3 year olds are going to make real impact in 2010

Kindest regards Jamesp

You're absolutely right about the slow pace of the Prix d'Aumale (they crawled through the first few furlongs), but Criquette Head-Maarek is convinced that Helleborine was not beaten for lack of stamina in the Prix Marcel Boussac - the filly kept on really well despite losing the lead in the final half furlong.  The sticky ground that day was far from ideal for her and she looks sure to improve on better ground.  She's a totally different type from her sister African Rose: she is far more relaxed and tractable, which will give her an excellent chance of staying the mile in a fast-run Guineas on better ground.  The trainer would not have run her twice over a mile last year if she had any doubts about her stamina.

Qushchi is undoubtedly promising, I love her pedigree and I agree there should be plenty of improvement in her.  But it has to be admitted that her form is nowhere near good enough (the runner-up Choral is a consistent but very moderate performer, officially rated 77) and I'll be surprised if she manages to confirm the form with close third (and fellow Guineas entry) Joviality.  In any case, it's extremely unusual for a maiden winner (untested at Group race level at two) to win the 1000 Guineas (Ghanaati being the only recent example), and this year's race looks likely to be contested by a number of fillies with high class juvenile form.  But good luck if you're on at big prices!

The comments about White Moonstone have been very positive, as you would expect...

From the Racing Post article: "She's unbeaten and won a Group 1 at Ascot. She's working really well and we're aiming her at the 1,000 Guineas. She's classy and is proven at a mile, although she'll stay further in time. We'll see how she does in the Guineas and then think about the Oaks."

From the Godolphin website (Al Quoz media open morning): "We are aiming White Moonstone at the 1,000 Guineas at Newmarket after an excellent winter. She is straightforward and uncomplicated. Physically she has done well and we are very happy with her. It looks like she is showing all the right signs and, with six weeks to go, she is exactly where we want her to be. We are definitely going to try and channel her into the Guineas. She is one of the best fillies around on her two-year-old form and we hope she can build on that this year."

In the last 26 years (1985-2010 inclusive), the following 1000 Guineas winners had won over further than 7f at two: Oh So Sharp, Midway Lady, Miesque, Salsabil, Shadayid, Hatoof, Bosra Sham, Kazzia, Speciosa (won over 7½f), Finsceal Beo.  Two other Guineas winners had been placed over a mile in pattern company (Sleepytime, Ameerat).  Overall, 10 winners of the Guineas had won over further than 7f at two, while the other 16 had not won beyond 7f (the vast majority had not been tried beyond 7f). 

Of far greater significance is the fact that 25 out of those 26 Guineas winners had shown enough speed at two to win over 6f or 7f.  The only exception was Hatoof, all of whose races at two were over a mile (culminating in a close second in the Prix Marcel Boussac).  All the leading contenders this year won over 6f or 7f last year.

are the bookies shortening up a lot of horses 16/1 -33/1 anticipating pricesizes selection in tomorrows' Racing Post. there are only about 4 or 5 he could pick that are still reasonable prices, Laughing Lashes, Cape Dollar, Look At Me, Make A Dance and Moonlight Cloud. cheers.

Well, two of the 'big three' firms (WH and Lads) are certainly ducking Laughing Lashes - they have cut her to 10/1 and 11/1 respectively.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this turned out to be the Price wise selection.  Don't particularly fancy her myself - last year she seemed to lack that touch of brilliance one looks for in a Guineas winner.

Forgot to add that she was also well ahead of Memory in that race, regardless of excuses.

"one the going was g/f"


That wouldn't be a positive factor if it went to Newmarket

And that's not even before the potential for draw bias !...just look at what happened last year. I've had 3 picks. Two would like faster ground, and my 3rd horse is my substitute who wouldn't mind a bit of juice. I prefer to pick one horse, but these early classics are the head scratchers. At the end of the day picking 3 horses at 12,16 and 20s with lets say a tenner stake on each, is sometimes a better option than just having to pick the one and putting 30 on. I'm really looking forward to seeing how Moonlight Cloud get on against Helleborine. Both want that faster ground. Come on you Moonlight Cloud.

yep didn't think this would be the call,btn fav in the Rockfel(bhd another lively outsider Cape Dollar)
should enjoy the extra furlong,but tbh not for me,but who am i to argue with uncle tom

* her

Very poor play by the bookies if they only cut Laughing Lashes in anticipation of price wise, and kept her cut from 16 to 12&10s despite her not being the selection. It's only taking a gust of wind to cut a price these days. I don't believe the money for Havant or Pathfork either.

I don't believe the so called money put on this horse is consistent with the decrease in price. Neither am i so sure that Pathfork will turn out to be the best irish miler. I think the best Irish horse for the 2000 guineas might just be Zoffany.

I'm interested in this theory that Lad brokes have access to inside information concerning the O'Brien stable.  I'm not sure how this reputation got established, but I seem to recall that Mike Dillon (is he still PR Director?) got matey with one or more of the Coolmore crew (Alex Ferguson perhaps?) a few years ago.  I've no idea whether their reputation for being close to the yard is still deserved (does anyone have anecdotal evidence?), but it's interesting to note that they are joint-biggest about the filly Look At Me (runner-up to Havant in last season's Oh So Sharp Stakes) for the Guineas, which may suggest that the filly is not currently rated a genuine contender for the race.  In the absence of any tangible news from the stable, I assume that Misty For Me is their Guineas filly and that she is still on course for the race.