I was under the impression that the Ladbokes/ Ballydoyle connection had long since been established to be no longer existing.  Once it may have been so, but not now?  Happy to defer to more knowledgable opinion but the Ladds odds setters don't enjoy the reputation they might once have.

I fully believe that Zoffany will be their number 1.  Everything they've done with him suggests he's been their Guineas horse and as long as the ground runs good or faster, he'll be OK.
Oh wait! This is a 1000G thread!

I do believe they have the inside track about ballydoyle runners but they were definitely last to introduce st.nick by a long way to their 2000 guineas betting about 13-14 months ago.

i over heard Seamie Heffernan say he like Sing softly alot and after the race as he was being put up on edenshaw he told the lad she was top rate and liked her for newmarket

Sing Softly is surely at best only a second string for the O'Brien team (behind Misty For Me).  It would be no surprise to see Sing Softly head for the French Guineas or even wait for the Irish version.

Completely agree James. She'll go to France when their best 3yo fillies,Helleborine and Moonlight Cloud, are likely to be coming over here and thus an easier race,slightly.

I thought it was a very good performance by Moonlight Cloud: she showed plenty of speed and an impressive turn of foot.  However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Helleborine might turn the tables in the Guineas - she will surely improve considerably (more so than the winner) for that reappearance run and she should go close in the Guineas.  They're two smart fillies. 

I doubt if we'll see anything of the same calibre in the Nell Gwyn, entries for which were released today (those in bold are entered for the 1000 Guineas):
Aneedah, Attracted To You, Barefoot Lady, Crying Lightening, Darajaat, Elshabakiya, Ladies Are Forever, Lily Again, Maqaasid, Penny's Pearl, Qushchi, Sharnberry, Shim Sham, Show Rainbow, Sing Softly, Strictly Pink, Sweet Cecily.  It's hard to see any of that lot troubling the two French fillies, although Sing Softly has shown a decent level of form on soft ground in Ireland.

Sir Michael Stoute was quoted as saying "we may run her in a trial before she tackles the Guineas".  In other words, it wasn't certain that she would run in a trial, and if she did run in a trial he didn't specify whether it would be Newmarket or Newbury.

It looks as though, barring setbacks, at least seven of the main contenders for the Guineas will be heading straight to Newmarket without a prep race: White Moonstone, Misty For Me, Memory, Hooray, Havant, Laughing Lashes, I Love Me.

The two smart French fillies Moonlight Cloud and Helleborine staked their claims last week in the Prix Imprudence, with the former running out a very comfortable winner.  Helleborine backers should not give up hope, however, as there are grounds for believing that she is capable of significant improvement on that effort and there is likely to be very little between the pair in the Guineas.  See separate discussion thread on Helleborine where the arguments for and against have been set out.

Final declarations for the Nell Gwyn were made today, with eleven fillies set to go to post, headed by last year's Queen Mary Stakes winner Maqaasid, who carries a 3lb penalty.  It looks a weak renewal and it's hard to fancy any of the runners for the Guineas, although Sing Softly has clearly done well over the winter and should be at home on ground that's likely to be quicker than anything she has raced on before.  Maqaasid looked short of Guineas class based on her 6f performances last term and is not certain to stay a mile, but as a daughter of Green Desert she could still be open to improvement on fast ground (there were excuses for her in the Lowther and the ground was probably against her in the Cheveley Park).  The rest look exposed as being well below Guineas class and/or have a lot to prove in this company.

The Fred Darling on Saturday looks on paper to be a stronger race than the Nell Gwyn, with several very useful fillies among the entries, notably Cape Dollar, Cochabamba, Pontenuovo and Soraaya, but all have had their limitations exposed at one time or another and there don't appear to be any stars in the line-up.  Cape Dollar returns to the scene of her maiden win last year and could be open to further improvement back on a faster surface than she encountered in the Rockfel last autumn.

Mick Channon's very useful and lightly raced Majestic Dubawi takes on the colts in the European Free Handicap on Wednesday and could well book her place in the Guineas line-up.  She should relish the step up to 7f and is an interesting outsider for the Guineas.  Several of Mick's horses have disappointed recently, though, so it's hard to know whether Majestic Dubawi (or Soraaya, for that matter, on Saturday) will be forward enough to do herself justice.

Helleborine was outstayed by Misty For Me in testing conditions over a mile in the Prix Marcel Boussac but I don't agree that she was outstayed by Moonlight Cloud in the Prix Imprudence.  The race turned into a three-furlong sprint and it's impossible to draw any conclusions other than that the winner can quicken impressively off a slow pace (which we already knew from last year).  Helleborine was eased just as much as the winner once her chance had gone, she was most emphatically not outstayed by the winner!  Helleborine has already won over a mile (albeit in a slowly run race) and stayed on well in the Boussac, increasing her margin over the rest of the field through the final furlong, despite losing the battle with Misty For Me.

I happen to think that Helleborine is more likely to stay the Guineas mile than Moonlight Cloud, who is by the sprinter Invincible Spirit out of winning miler Ventura.  Freddie Head hinted last autumn that the main reason he raced her against the colts in the Lagardere was because he didn't want to run her over a mile at that stage of her career.  On balance, I think that both fillies will get the mile, but I'm more confident about Helleborine than Moonlight Cloud.

Took too long typing - you did beat me to it!!

We will agree to disagree james .... good luck. Cant believe Lance called you ugly by the way.

I only have 3 in my book Memory being one of those. There was 3 grand wanting to back her on here at 11.5 the last few days, an unusual amount on here at this stage so she isnt unfancied.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/11/03/21/RACING_Flat_Highclere.html&BID=465

One of the exciting aspects of Flat racing is that new stars emerge every summer, and Herbert is hoping a couple come from his big string, with Richard Hannon's filly Memory the chief hope.

"Memory is in great form and has physically done very well through the winter," Herbert continued.

"She's grown and is definitely much stronger than last year. She's in very good form at home and our plan with her is probably to go straight for the 1000 Guineas.

"She's a filly that I think goes very well fresh and unless Richard Hannon decides otherwise, I would imagine you won't see her until Newmarket in May.

"She disappointed on her last start at the Curragh, but maybe she had something washing over her that day and she was drawn wide.

"The race just didn't pan out for her and I think we should just put a line through that race.

"That was not her form and in her other races the form is absolutely rock solid.

"She won the Cherry Hinton having looked in all sorts of trouble. She actually ended up winning with her ears pricked and did it very cheekily.

"She beat the Cheveley Park winner (Hooray) and a number of other good fillies that day and that shows how smart she is.

"She's a filly with a terrific turn of foot and so long as her brain is in the right place and she wants to do it, she'll certainly be competitive and knocking on the door in very exciting races."

Above two posts FAO Lance In France.

On the subject of Hannon I will be watching Date with Destiny's performance over 10f on Thursday with considerable interest. She created a terrific impression when winning at Newbury last year and although well beaten (but not entirely disgraced) in better company in her two subsequent outings I was convinced at each time that the softish going was all against her. She still holds the Guineas entry and, although its a long shot, in an open year such as this an impressive win in the sales race might persuade connections to have a shot at the big one (lets not go into her optimum trip at this stage   ).

I agree with this.

HH talks about Memory being best fresh but then about her performance in the Cherry Hinton - that was her 3rd race in about 7 weeks. Think they are at this stage are putting a brave face on things as I am sure if she had come to hand and was ready, she would be running in one of these trials.

I've backed Majestic Dubawi for the 1000 at fancy prices but I think I may have done my dough. I dunno what to make of how Channon has placed his 3yo in the next few days. Last year he wanted to run Music Show in the Fred Darling but because Jaber Abdullah had Lady Of The Desert entered in that he put her in the Nell Gwyn. He was also quite vocal about Music Show in terms of how much he rated her and was keen to give an update of her well being ahead of the Nell Gwyn. This year I have read nothing from him on his 3yo fillies and I'm starting to worry that I have backed the wrong one of his and that his best filly is Soraaya who I don't believe is anywhere close to being good enough to win the 1000. If he is entering them in a similar way to last year then you would have to conclude that Soraaya is his best hope for the Guineas. I can't have Show Rainbow as anything more than a token entry for tomorrows Nell Gwyn.

He might want to get a run on the Rowley Mile into Majestic Dubawi and so he has chosen Newmarket because of that. But why the handicap this year? I hope it's simply because she is really well in off a rating of 100 and he thinks she is a good thing. My concern is that he thinks she is not up to running in the Nell Gwyn. I guess it's not long til we find out though.

Channon has a really interesting unraced 3yo entered on Saturday at Newbury called Stella Point. He has been breezing it on the gallops with Music Show and it looks a nice prospect. Richard Hughes is booked. He is the go to jockey for Channon now for his best horses after he fell out with Fallon and Moore in spring/early summer last year. So the booking is quite interesting to me.

Say what you like about Channon but if you keep an eye on his yard and can weed out the good ones you will make some decent money backing his better runners at bigger prices. For the last year and a half year I have found him quite easy to read and won good money backing his horses at bigger prices. Including Music Show at 33s, 10s and 6s as well as Majestic Dubawi and Singapore Lilly amongst others at huge prices too.

I don't rate him as a trainer particularly but I believe he will win the 1000 Guineas at some point soon at a big price. He has been close on a number of occasions in recent years and he seems to get more classy fillies than colts. I'll happily back what I think is the Channon filly for the Guineas for the next few seasons at a big price because I think I will be getting a value bet in most years.

Agree James. His horses haven't been running that great lately. I really thought Princess Banu would go in the other day. She looks like she could be a horse worth keeping an eye on to me. I won a shed load backing her Dam back in the day at decent odds. She was one of my favourite horses of that time with the right conditions.

I think his 2yo horses aren't running great first time out but he is doing OK with his 3 year olds and older. He has some nice looking two years olds to me as well but it's very early in the season as yet.

Freddie Head hasn't decided where which race Moonlight Cloud will ehad for as it hasn't been decided yet. Helleborine's trainer is looking to avoid Moonlight Cloud.




"I was not disappointed at all with her run last week as the winner is very good. I want to see what is going to run in the French Guineas and what is going to run in England, but I think it is going to be very hard for me to beat Freddie's filly. I will be trying to avoid her as the other day, I don't think we had any excuses.

"Our filly ran a very good race and maybe she needed the race physically as she was not 100%, but I'm not sure she can beat the horse that beat her."