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Mr Memory: I thought Hendon, (my favourite and most friendliest track of all), is now, tragically, part of the Brent Cross Shopping Centre monstrosity?
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Mr Memory and expat we are on our way to Wembley-tickets ordered COME ON YOU BEES!!
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Mr Memory: I can remember a man at Wimbledon called Len who used to do the tissue for the bookmakers. Nice man, very pleasant and very knowledgeable. (Think he might have had blood pressure problems). Clapton is now the Millfields Housing Estate, homes for the Elderley, (maybe I should put my name down. How poignant is that?)
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"eastmead"........I was there for the "Sherpa Van" Final.
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"TheMadGhost"..............I can remember when "Mini" Cooper did the tissue for Tony Morris.
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An old regular at Clapton dogs,a man I knew,got a house on that Millfields Est.where the dog track used to stand.He painted the front door orange because it was No.5.He got in trouble with Hackney council,he told them good job they never put him in No.6.Peter Walsh the Hackney trainer kept the pub The Jubilee over the road.Freddie Hudson who always trained a couple of decent dogs from home lived round the corner as did Kenny Emanuel who owned some very good dogs including Denny Street with Charlie Greenacre.Freddie Hudson was head man to Edna Wearing.It was a proper dog mand district.
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Mr Memory: I knew a man called "Roy" who worked for Tony Morris up until his death from cancer a few years ago. Loved his golf and played up to a year or so before his death.
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Whitmarsh: When have you ever known a council with a sense of humour, little people trying to throw their weight around, or, maybe they can't laugh because they've realised that they are "The Joke" and can't handle it. I can imagine the stories in "The Jubilee" must have have been worth listening to.
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Gloucester Peter was an excellent judge,and will say it again a really nice guy...we had a dog trained by Dave Kinchett and I would always ask his opinion as equal to or in front of the trainer
Stanley Porter was the regular drunk Mr Memory recalls,always used to have a freash toothpaste and brush handy....he had a brother Tom,who made a book at Wimbledon...probably in the cheap side next to Swindle,Ginger Newman,Les Nicholls(Arthur) really smart dresser Could the Roy referred to below have been Roy Curtis...thought he worked for John White...played with the Bookmakers Golf Society..Southwark Star...you won one of those events...run by Dave Saphir....loads of dog names would turn up....Grimes clan,Sid Sweeney,Dicky Barnett,Tommy Lawrence,Charlie Miller,Del Nash and sons, |
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Oh and I recall Southward Star winning one of those golf days...
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celticgr: I'm convinced you are spot-on with Roy Curtis. I think I might have got the two bookmakers confused because they stood next to each other in the old main ring at Wimbledon. Roy was a smashing lad, (I didn't go to Wimbledon that often but played a few rounds of golf with him though I never actually knew his surname). Roy was a close friend of a mate of mine who used to work on the racecourses, and that's how I got to know him.
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The mad ghost, Roy loved a pint and did have a few pints with him in the Ram at Catford then of to the dogs where he worked for Brian Woolaston. Roys nickname was stuttery but he was a first class workman.
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Roy Curtis was one of the nicest men ever to grace a dog track or racecourse.After the war he worked for Jimmy Gent at Catford and the races until Jimmys death.He then worked for John White,he worked"on top"for the Whitenob tic tac firm in the 50s.He was an excellent workman and good judge of dogs.Though not a big punter he was very knowledgable at Catford.Roy was a staunch socialist,probably down to his difficult time during the war.A conscientous objector he was put in the brutal military prison at Shepton Mallet,I know how bad it was.He was in their when a man named Clayton died.Roy was transported to the North East where he worked the war years down flooded mines under the North Sea,you couldnt stand up in those mines.Youre right about The Ram in Catford Broadway,at Wimbledon he drunk in the Youngs house run by Nosher Powell.Light and Special was his drink,he was special a good mate.
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celticgr: I have been to Kempton a couple of times since, but Steve has not been there. If he is still operating, I would wait until the weather warms up a bit to see! I did not know that Johnny had died, he must have been young. Steve's dad the ex teacher used to clerk.
eastmead: I hope you have a good day, and a right result! I hope also their managerial situation is sorted out before then. I may be away then, I do not know yet. |
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Whitmarsh when i first went racing was Roy working for Sid Newton, it was the mid to late seventies but i may be mistaken. Agree with you a very special friend.
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Celtic Gr if you read this today i am very sorry to hear about Dad, will you please send my deepest condolances to all your family.
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Celtic GR ......Very sad news.
Southwark Star,You are exactly right,he did work for Sid and Ronnie Newton for about five years or so. |
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celticgr,
very sad news about your father. much respected man. |
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I wish to add my sentiments to those expressed by "Southwark Star", "whitmarsh" & "Mister E"
I knew Jimmy for nearly 40 years & was fortunate to form a lasting friendship. He was an extremely shrewd man & I learned much of my racing "know how" from our shared experiences. I have much to remember him by. |
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New Cross Gate
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Funeral details for Jimmy Green are
service at St Aidans Church Finch Lane Little Chalfont Bucks HP7 9NE Service starts at 11.30 am...there is a Metropolitan Line Tube station close by...Chalfont and Latimer Afterwards the family would like to see as many people as possible at Stoke Park Stoke Park Park Road Stoke Poges Buckinghamshire Great Britain SL2 4PG No doubt there will be plenty cups of tea and some booze The family wish to pass on thanks for all of the genuine messages they have received from all over the world via either the forum and calls and texts...it has been very moving...especially in racing terms the tribute in todays Racing Post.. I know he always tried to do the right thing and stick to his principals. |
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"celticgr"..........You seem to have overlooked the date.
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Mr M
Of course.... Jimmy Green funeral date is Friday 25th February |
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On the subject of Roy Curtis...I knew him a long long time...and he never mentioned to me his war experience..it must have been tough...he was a true and utter gentleman and I enjoyed every second in his company,either on the course or having a knock on the golf course(he wast great,the none of us really were)
He worked for a long time with Ronnie Newton,somehow when he died his son Nicky wasnt allowed to keep the pitches, as the great and the good deemed he wasnt a fit and proper person....Nicky was a bit of a rogue but truely likeable and one of the best clerks ever,sadly died penniless at a very young age...his brother Gary worked for John Banks for a while |
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So sorry to hear the sad news about Jimmy Green.I knew Roy was in Shepton Mallet during the war from someone who was in there with him.Gary Newton als clerked for Steve Griffin from Brighton outside at White City and for a short while Harringay.Last time I saw him,by chance,he told me he was running a youth football team in Sussex.
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Small world...someone called me this morning and said Steve Griffin passed his best wishes on....he had been in Spain I believe...one of the better dog bookies of his generation,all went a bit Pete Tong when White City closed...
Gary did indeed run a football club,want to say Haywards Heath but that isnt quiet right,but general area....they were semi pro....got it ..Burgess Hill Town... Its probably been on here before about Roy Curtis...lets say it was Wimbledon.......he called a four ponies on a dog in the photo finish....just as the result was being announced......the other way of course he uttered the immortal words " I couldnt ffffffcccccccccccckkkkkkkkking stutttttttter then could I" Lovely guy in the Tommy Lawrence mould Others I recall form that era would have been Dickie Barnett,Harry "the chef" Jacobs,Waggy One Leg,Dessi Harris,Georgie Gunn.... Dessi worked at the back of the stands tic tacking to us in the cheap ring with a really old boy called Joe who drove an ancient Morris Minor....he got warned off as he had so many on the floor layers it became untenable...he had a son called Hugo.... Dessi was the opposite to Roy Curtis in that he was ultra right wing,he was a caretaker of some flate,which he also lived in,and would play at top volume,Land of Hope and Glory when an immigrant family moved in....this would go on for hours, There was another character around Wimbledon in those days...Berty Pearson....large guy with a big cigar....would stay for 4 races,sell some knock off gear,have a bet,then go home to watch Dads Army |
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Gold Tooth Des was a caretaker of a block of flats as well as taking over the Parfitt(pink card)tic tac firm.Bertie Pearson was a very big player at the boxing.He would attend all the big fights in London and would lay a substantial bet.In the 50s he used to sit in Chick Singermans S.P. office in Maddox St. off of Regent St.At one time if you wanted a bookmakers pitch at Wimbledon Bert was the man to see,his family had a lot of sway.Waggy Sawyeris still alive be about my age,pushing 90,still smokes he plays cards in Brixton 2or3 times a week.Very good clerk he worked for Charlie Pollard among others.
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Is Georgie Gunn still about?
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"whitmarsh"............."Waggy" used to give me clerking lessons between races at Wimbledon......his methods were superb & I learned a lot.
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Whitmarsh I spoke to George Gunn 6 weeks ago still living in Hove, smartist man i ever see.He is a little depressed at losing so many of his friends. When Tony Morris passed away George was very upset and not been the same person since.
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Thanks Southwark,glad hes still about.I think George owned a dog that won the St.Leger.He had it as a pet when it retired.He was a very good clerk and a top bookmaker at Hove.His father Chubby Gunn made a book on the free course at Brighton.
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Whitmarsh your knowledge is about racing folk is truely remarkable. I asked George why he was allways early and he told me a story about his father going to Epsom, he told George to be ready at 11, George arrived at 11 01 and Dad was gone, he was never late again. He never told me his Dads name. George used to bring smoked salmon sandwiches racing and as people who know me on here i look skinny and underfed George used to share them with me, it was the finest smoke salmon i have ever tasted. George is a TRUE GENTLEMAN.
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Bert Pearson promoted boxing shows and managed some good fighters in the past.
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I first worked with George Gunn in about 1973...at Goodwood where he repped for Ted Binns..he looked like a distinguished male model,a million dollars...went down with an old boy called Charlie Tobias and back with Billy Dent...wages were about £10.00 which was five times more than my other job in Chapel St market...and about 5 hours less work time..he got me tickets for the Leeds-Sunderland final from Dave Sexton,his great friend and lookalike...George played in goal for the TV Allstars charity football team who played all over the place on Sundays and he was also a founder of SPARKS the famous kids charity with Jimmy Hill
He drifted out of racing for a while to concentrate on dogs,I think he had a Puppy Derby winner around 1982....but found his way back onto the horse scene a few years later with John Cohen and John White,doing the dogs at Wimbledon too....the guy is one of lifes one offs... Incidentally he was married to Lulu Mendozas sister... |
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spoke to Tommy Lawrence yesterday...hes having a rough old time with his health and the building he lives in has subsidence(insurance company dont want to know) he has spoken to Waggy...now over 90....but in good health
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Good evening another face from yhe races passed away at the weekend, Trevor Morgen who worked with the away bookmakers. Trevor was one of lifes triers and will be missed.
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Choked to hear about Trevor,as you say always a trier.Came out racing with the old man woolgar,Sonny.
Mentioning that name Sonny Kelly who must be 93 will be lost without Trevor.Sonny told me at Christmas Trev used to bring a paper up to him everyday and do a few errands for him.He was thoughtful like that.Very sad. |
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Thats really sad news,Trevor was a real character,as said a proper tryer...finding a way to earn a pound...he reminded me of Mike Reid...a big miss for the game
Sonny Kelly:glad top hear he is about,another top guy,a proper gentleman...really bright and knew how to treat people,great friends of the legend that was Groucho...if you get chance send him my best wishes |
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Celtic,I speak to him every Xmas and will most certainly pass on your message.Does any one remember Wag or Mr.Wag as he was known at East Anglian and Fenland coursing meetings?A regular at Newmarket and sometimes York he always knew of a 2yo that was catching pigeons.Yarmouth was another happy hunting ground for him.He used to go to the Irish coursing with the Gaskin family and had a touch when their dog Johns Gang won the Derby at Clonmel.He also had a touch with Joannes Legacy long odds when the Irish Cup was run at Clounanna.He backed the Irish Purse winner that year as well.The story goes that Wag went to Newmarket many years ago,to be an apprentice with either Harvey or Jack Leader,I cant remember what one.A scientist who had done experiments on pigmies used Wag as a "guinea pig".Wag grew to 6ft 6ins and developed an unusual face and sqeaky voice after drinking his potion.I dont know if it was true but that was the story related to me many years ago by a classic winning jockey who was apprentice with him.
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The Mitcham track is mentioned on this thread.
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