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Woods could be disqualified!
Woods could be disqualified!
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no one is accusing woods of cheating
it's how Augusta committee have applied the ruling---not a level playing field--fails the smell test |
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The bit i find confusing is why when they viewed the footage did they say it was ok initially?
Either it was 'near enough' to the original spot or it wasn't. |
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mexicano
it's not a technicality that should have seen woods disqualified. When I say technicality, I am talking about the committee's application of the rules. Some people have a problem with the way that they have applied those rules, resulting in the 2 shot penalty rather than disqualification. It is a fudge. IMO though, it would be a travesty to have any competitor disqualified for such petty nonsense and it'd reflect badly on the sport, in the same way that docking the Chinese kid a shot for slow play reflects badly on the sport. I think the correct decision has been made in terms of common sense. Golf should grow up a bit and use proportionate punishments. If this Woods decision sparks that way of thinking, then it's not all bad. Hand on heart, would you really want any player disqualified for something as trivial as this? Surely a 2-shot penalty is a just enough punishment. It's not as if he's marked himself down a round of 59 and tried to pass it off as kosher. In reality, the ball hitting the pin and going into the drink has cost him 3 shots -- Tiger is a victim of bad luck in that regard! |
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Might Whites
Think they are suggesting they viewed it and thought ''its there or thereabouts'' so they let it go (probably with the weight that its Tiger in the back of their mind and best not kick up too much of a stink). With him then admiting he took an extra two yards, this put them in a hole and it was now a definite penalty. Do we actually know as fact that it was reviewed whilst he was still playing and before his interview?? Anyone? I wouldnt be suprised if this was made up in order to help the process of letting him back in. I hope he goes on to win it because it will be the most tarnished and cringworthy victory in the history of the game and the masters commitee will get what they deserve for bottling this. |
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that's why I can't understand 2 stroke penalty
if it was first judged --drop was within reasonable distance |
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the dza..........can i ask if you play the game mate?
I cant disagree that Tiger was a victim of bad luck and in no way did he try cheating, think he just got confused which is understandable in that situation. The rules of golf and its self regulation by players are what set it apart from other sports and they should be upheld no matter how unlucky or unfortunate a circumstance. He signed for a wrong score after being ignorant to a particular rule. Its as clear a dsq as you are likelly to see. Totally fudged this to keep Tiger in it. Utterly disgracefull. |
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Think his admition he purposely took two yards back, changed the thoughts on 'reasonable distance'.
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the important thing to remember is.................the masters rules committee reviewed the drop whilst he was still playing 18 and they were satisfied he had dropped it in the correct place OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE IMPOSED 2 SHOT PENALTY AT END OF ROUND.
However.....after listening to his interview they realised there was a mistake with his drop ( I think he just got the rules muddled up, but thats not the issue !! )and they then imposed 2 shot penalty rather than DQ as it was their fault they didn't add penalty to his round. Although Tiger made the mistake, they told him there was no problem with the drop, therefore he signed for his score. Cheating no, ignorant yes, I would like to think they would have done that with other players as well BUT WHO KNOWS ????  Its not the 1st time Masters rules committee have gone against rules of golf. Back in 2009 McIlroy left his ball in bunker after his 1st attempt and then smoothed his footprints. This isnt allowed ( as most golfers know but that rule has now been changed anyway ) but they decided it wasn't in the 'spirit of the game' to DQ him so they didn't even penalise him. |
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yeah true jimmy
his admission is on tape  |
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Ok he's not cheating - why did the former world No 1 for nearly a decade, 1 of the best to ever pick up a club and 'student of the game' deliberately drop the ball 2 yds from where he was supposed to? I presume he is aware not to drop it 2 yds nearer the hole?
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WHAT DONE IS DONE.......ANY DEBATING IS POINTLESS......MOVE ON.
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The debate is interesting and I don't think it's pointless.
Can I clarify something for flipem (although I'm open to correction myself on this). I don't think anyone has said that the committee reviewed it and then told Tiger before he signed it that his score was ok. I don't think Tiger even knew there was a review. It isn't up to the committee to get a player's scorecard completed properly. It's up to the player. Sometimes they can spot an infringement and help him out by getting to him before he signs, and sometimes a tv viewer will phone in and trigger them to review an incident (which I think is what happened in this case), but that's not a part of the process, that's just the player getting lucky. The player has responsibility for what he signs for, nobody else. Incidentally, I agree with what the dza says above. I don't think people should be getting disqualified for something like this which is clearly an honest mistake, and they're getting a good kicking anyway with a 2-shot penalty. However, the rules as they are don't permit what they've done in this case. |
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You cannot change the rules, neither the player nor the committee.
If the rule is bad or wrong then it may get changed at some future R&A/USGA rule review. But while it is a rule of golf, its a rule, no exceptions, no matter who the player is or who the committee are. The Masters have shown that they are prepared to ignore the rules of golf in favour of whatever they wish to do in their tournament. As such the Masters should no longer be considered a major if they arent adhering to the rules of golf. |
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if i could be allowed to broaden this a little.
it seems to me that this is typical of the attitude of the peolpe who run the masters. they do what they want to, they invite who they like, they give exemptions to who they like, they see themselves as something apart or superior to the general game of golf. i'm pretty sure that this decision would not have been reached in any tournament run by the r&a ,usga,pga, or european tour. somebody ought to bring these people kicking and screaming into the real world, and make them understand that as far as regulation goes there is a higher authority than the men in green blazers. |
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I wonder if this thread will still be going masters 2013
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2014
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The sheer logic of what happened stands out.
If committee saw nothing wrong at the time -why a two shot penalty later ? The bogus penalty is the cowardly substitute for the rule-directed DQ. Now we have two books - Rules of Golf and Rules of Golf (TW edition) |
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ffs get with the programe when ,and if they loked they were satisfied alah mclory bunker show that he,d dropped it clse enough,then tiger goes on tv telling the whole world he,d dropped it strategicaly 2v yds away to gain an advantage,then they had to act because it wasnt a random drop close to his previous divot
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and i,m chucking sick of my o sticking,
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If it was a viewer who raised the alert in this case -are we to assume that
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If it was a viewer who raised the alert in this case -are we to assume that
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Jimmy -- no, I don't play golf at all, I am just a casual observer here. I like seeing the best play at anything. So where I come from on all of this is that I think the rule-makers should bend over backwards to keep any competitor in the tournament, unless the cheating is just something ridiculous.
I fully respect the opinions of Mex, yourself and others who think he should be DQ'd, that's just my take on it...an outsider looking in, as it were. |
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A very interesting thread ...I have to agree with much of what Mex has stated...The bottom line is.... if Woods happens to win the 2013 Masters then this tournament will be tainted for ever.Lets just hope we get a winner from someone who played by the rules...As for Tiger he should have done the right thing and DQ himself...He didn't and weather he likes it or not will now have that black cloud above his head...
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dza
i understand the point about keeping the best players playing, but the thing is in golf all men are equals, and i don't think the mob at augusta would have been as benevolent to every player that's there this weekend. i'm also of the opinion that no player would have got away without a dq in any other tournament in the world. i know we all dislike the phrase "rules is rules" but the fact is . they are. and they've all we've got. this is a sporting contest that#s goverened by a set of rules. if they want to "make it up as they go along in order to keep a big name in the limelight, we might as well drop the sporting pretext, and become part of the entertainment industry. |
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Haventaclue 14 Apr 13 13:49 Joined: 26 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 70 | Blogger: Haventaclue's blog The debate is interesting and I don't think it's pointless. Can I clarify something for flipem (although I'm open to correction myself on this). I don't think anyone has said that the committee reviewed it and then told Tiger before he signed it that his score was ok. I don't think Tiger even knew there was a review. It isn't up to the committee to get a player's scorecard completed properly. It's up to the player. Sometimes they can spot an infringement and help him out by getting to him before he signs, and sometimes a tv viewer will phone in and trigger them to review an incident (which I think is what happened in this case), but that's not a part of the process, that's just the player getting lucky. The player has responsibility for what he signs for, nobody else. Incidentally, I agree with what the dza says above. I don't think people should be getting disqualified for something like this which is clearly an honest mistake, and they're getting a good kicking anyway with a 2-shot penalty. However, the rules as they are don't permit what they've done in this case. haventaclue The reason I said they reviewed it was that at the press conference yesterday shown on BBC the Master rules chairman ( cant remember his name sorry ) said that they reviewed the drop whilst he was playing the 18th and decided it was correct, therefore didnt feel the need to tell Tiger before he signed his card and only realised there was a problem after he had signed and he had said he dropped it 2 clubs back. |
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I think its an interesting debate but there will be Tiger haters who think he was wrong, the committee were wrong, tigers a cheats etc etc........and tiger lovers who believe it was the right decision.
My own view is that he didn't try and cheat. I believe he got the rules muddled up and took it back on the line of what he thought the correct line was. I cant believe a player would deliberately cheat and even if you think he did, why would he then say something during the interview ??? Honest mistake imo and correct thing to do is to let him carry on. To have not given a penalty would have been wrong also imo  |
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Honesty don't come into it. An "honest mistake" is still contrary to the rules of golf.
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flip
you've got it dead right. he didn't try and cheat. but he broke the rules. the penalty for his breaches are disqualification. it really is a simple as that. |
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I ask again - why did he knowingly drop in the wrong place?
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he dropped the ball in the wrong place because he applied a procedure that was relevant for a differn't rule to the one he was proceeding under.
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Sorry?
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So in certain circumstances (other than obvious hazards) a golfer can knowingly drop the ball in a more advantageous position and without consulting rules/ref/other players? I'm sure golfers up and down the country will be applying this to their rounds safe in the knowledge that they are no longer cheating!
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it's a frequent occurance that golfers get free drops and put it in a more advantageous position, whilst adhering to the rules of gold.
do you have a problem understanding that you can inadvertantly break the rules? |
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Not for the club golfer no but for someone like woods (esp as he was done a few months back for similar) then it is a bit of a problem yes - either way he aint going to win now and with hindsight i bet he wishes he had of walked.
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All that place prize money gone to him. He should donate it to charity.
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haventaclue - many thanks for two more very articulate posts above
you and Mexicano are spot on in your analysis and explanation he should have been DQd and given that he wasn't, he should have walked |
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its fair to say its more than ONE viewer who phoned in
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I know that the rules of golf can never be as black and white as they are for a sport like tennis or snooker,but surely the whole can of worms that is the dropped ball in golf is about as grey as it gets.Where the player is required to drop a ball "as near as possible" to where the original ball was played from is a rule that is broken routinely if the player doesnt make every effort to drop the ball right into that nasty divot he made the first time.
Lets face it,everyone tries to avoid the divot,including the pros,by manipulating the drop just a little bit,thereby avoiding a disadvantageous lie. Surely anybody who ever does this(even if you intended to avoid the divot but still ended up in it) should disqualify themselves in the "true spirit of the game". |