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Woods could be disqualified!

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By:
Total Bosman
When: 13 Apr 13 15:01
Meanwhile, here comes Bubba....
By:
turnip turns
When: 13 Apr 13 15:01
http://www.usga.org/NewsSF.aspx?id=2147496867&LangType=1033
By:
wallis
When: 13 Apr 13 15:02
They are quoting a rule that was brought in to stop people seeing something on TV , reporting it and then getting a player disqualified.

33-7/4.5 Competitor Unaware of Penalty Returns Wrong Score; Whether Waiving or Modifying Disqualification Penalty Justified

Q. A competitor returns his score card. It later transpires that the score for one hole is lower than actually taken due to his failure to include a penalty stroke(s) which he did not know he had incurred. The error is discovered before the competition has closed.

Would the Committee be justified, under Rule 33-7, in waiving or modifying the penalty of disqualification prescribed in Rule 6-6d?

A. Generally, the disqualification prescribed by Rule 6-6d must not be waived or modified.

However, if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules, it would be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving the disqualification penalty prescribed by Rule 6-6d.  The penalty stroke(s) associated with the breach would, however, be applied to the hole where the breach occurred.

For example, in the following scenarios, the Committee would be justified in waiving the disqualification penalty:

    A player makes a short chip from the greenside rough. At the time, he and his fellow-competitors have no reason to suspect that the player has double-hit his ball in breach of Rule 14-4.  After the competitor has signed and returned his score card, a close-up, super-slow-motion video replay reveals that the competitor struck his ball twice during the course of the stroke.  In these circumstances, it would be appropriate for the Committee to waive the disqualification penalty and apply the one-stroke penalty under Rule 14-4 to the player’s score at the hole in question.
By:
incaseof
When: 13 Apr 13 15:02
Bubba two back of Tiger Cool
By:
dave1357
When: 13 Apr 13 15:02

Apr 13, 2013 -- 2:51PM, overthecliff wrote:


Bob HarigHere is the USGA rule that applies to the situation, why he is not DQ'd http://t.co/LAopyddMZF


yes he clearly showed ignorance of the rule

By:
PeteTheBloke
When: 13 Apr 13 15:03
Is it definitely a 2 stroke penalty? Masters site has nothing. PGA site still has his score as -3
By:
mightyfly
When: 13 Apr 13 15:03
Woods gained an unfair advantage by dropping back the distance he did, knowing full well he just had to replicate the previous shot to put it close. HE SHOULD WALK imo.
By:
Gerbs
When: 13 Apr 13 15:03
golf channel havign a dig at monty Happy

you do what Brian Davis did or you go your own way like monty did Grin
By:
guru1
When: 13 Apr 13 15:04
Rule 6-6

b. Signing and Returning Score Card
After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.

d. Wrong Score for Hole
The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

The key point being is that rule 33-7 which is my understanding is the rule they have used shouldn't of been applied unless he has spoken to the officials prior to signing the card in which case rule 6-6 b would of given him 2 shot penalty or no penalty
By:
amelia1253
When: 13 Apr 13 15:04
2 be fair from what i have read of the rules the right decsion has been made
By:
mayburydrr
When: 13 Apr 13 15:05
people are being unfair on tiger. his interview (initially his downfall) shows that he was oblivious to his breaking of the rules. there is a new rule which stops players getting DQd in thiis fashiion. instead they simply incur a penalty. whats the problem. its just cos its Woods people getting in a twist
By:
incaseof
When: 13 Apr 13 15:05
Drop it wrong IS A TWO SHOT PENALTY.
By:
Fedor
When: 13 Apr 13 15:06
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/apr/07/padraig-harrington-disqualification-rule-change
By:
mayo
When: 13 Apr 13 15:06
"Really don't think TV rule applies here.  Other pros are saying they were specifically briefed it wouldn't in these circumstances- only applies when there are violations which are not immediately visible / noticeable unless examined under TV microscope.  In this situation Tiger simply got the rules wrong (if it had been deliberate he obviously wouldn't have admitted it).  I think in some respects the decision shows common sense, but there is no common sense rule in golf- as young Guan can testify."

I agree with this. The new rule would only apply if Tiger didn't realise the place he was dropping the ball was two yards further back.
For example, if a player didn't realise they were grounding their club in a hazard and TV pictures show they had, the new rule could apply whereas if they knew they were grounding the club but just didn't know the rule it would be DQ (if scorecard already signed).
By:
Swagger
When: 13 Apr 13 15:06
Almost zero chance he will walk in my opinion. Given he said what he did in the post round interview suggests he didn't even know he was breaking the rule or why mention it
By:
Kelly
When: 13 Apr 13 15:07
Disrepute again golfing rulers .  Making it up as they go along .

For what its worth , dont think Tiger gained any advantage after suffering a grotesque piece of bad luck on his shot .  Cost him 2 shots then , and now an extra 2 shots .
By:
Total Bosman
When: 13 Apr 13 15:07
The TV rule exists for situations where a player COULD NOT know they broke the rules.  Not for situations where they simply DID NOT.  Ignorance is irrelevant.  They have got the rules wrong today.
By:
mightyfly
When: 13 Apr 13 15:08
Dropping it wrong isn't really the issue. KNOWINGLY dropping it wrong is the point, to gain advantage.
By:
Dan Chipowski
When: 13 Apr 13 15:09
Total Bosman on the money.
By:
Swagger
When: 13 Apr 13 15:10
But if he knowingly dropped it incorrectly then why did he mention it in the post conference
By:
guru1
When: 13 Apr 13 15:11
As Faldo says Davies lost a match because of video footage etc but I don't blame Tiger I blame the authorities for not either redrafting the rules and or not having the guts to enforce the existing ones because every mishap now will have to be let go.
By:
olspy1
When: 13 Apr 13 15:11
If I was cynical I would say that word had got back to one of his team that he had cheated.... And so he played ignorant by pretending he didnt know the rules.
By:
Banwana
When: 13 Apr 13 15:12
I think he was confused with the actual rule becuase he was wired up after hitting the flag and believed he could take a drop from behind of the first shot. I think he did realise this afterwards and the interview afterwards reminded me of his tv apology slightly Laugh
I think how he communicates today will help the golf world work out if he is worthy to win this one. I hope he does.
By:
Swagger
When: 13 Apr 13 15:12
That is a possible explanation olspy1, i thought of that as well and if that was the case then that is even more reason why he wouldn't walk
By:
Horangi.
When: 13 Apr 13 15:14
Pressure going to mount on Tiger, withdrawal might still be in play...if he was a normal human.
By:
dave1357
When: 13 Apr 13 15:14

Apr 13, 2013 -- 3:05PM, mayburydrr wrote:


people are being unfair on tiger. his interview (initially his downfall) shows that he was oblivious to his breaking of the rules. there is a new rule which stops players getting DQd in thiis fashiion. instead they simply incur a penalty. whats the problem. its just cos its Woods people getting in a twist


no - he clearly showed ignorance of the rules and is not therefore protected by the new rule

By:
incaseof
When: 13 Apr 13 15:16
What says Tiger KNEW he broke the rule? Only reason he got two shot pen is because of tv pictures!! If a official got up to him and said the drop was against the rule he would take the two shot penalty before he signed his card
By:
guru1
When: 13 Apr 13 15:17
Personally I hope he goes on and nearly wins it and loses to the chines lad by 1 shot on the 18th hole sunday night :)
By:
mightyfly
When: 13 Apr 13 15:17
Because I don't think he was under suspicion of any wrong doing. If he had played the ball from the correct place, he'd have had to adjust the shot he played as it was slightly too much and in danger of going over the back. Therefore he deliberately dropped it back so he could just play the same stroke.
By:
mayburydrr
When: 13 Apr 13 15:19
Andrew Cotter, BBC Sport at Augusta
"The rules of golf are clear. Tiger took an incorrect drop so there's only one outcome. Guan Tianlang will have to be disqualified."
By:
Vubiant
When: 13 Apr 13 15:19
Bottom line 1 - bad day for golf when rules and interpretations are shown to be malleable and dependent on who is affected
Bottom Line 2- If Tiger wins it will be a tainted title and if he equals or beats Jack's record by one it will be a tainted record. the 'Timeform squiggle' will never be erased.

If Tiger had any sense he would have walked -his stock would have soared.
By:
the silverback
When: 13 Apr 13 15:19
However, if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules.....

Of course he could reasonably have known he shouldn't have dropped it two yards further back.
By:
xmoneyx
When: 13 Apr 13 15:21
Alliss----rules are complicated Grin
By:
mayburydrr
When: 13 Apr 13 15:22

Apr 13, 2013 -- 3:14PM, dave1357 wrote:


Apr 13, 2013 --  3:05PM, mayburydrr wrote:people are being unfair on tiger. his interview (initially his downfall) shows that he was oblivious to his breaking of the rules. there is a new rule which stops players getting DQd in thiis fashiion. instead they simply incur a penalty. whats the problem. its just cos its Woods people getting in a twistno - he clearly showed ignorance of the rules and is not therefore protected by the new rule


after more reading i think youre correct. the new ruling seems vague. he evidently got confused by the rules, but is that enough to let him go?

By:
Wok
When: 13 Apr 13 15:22
If he has been assessed a 2 shot penalty why is the Masters own scoreboard online still showing him as -3 ?
By:
mightyfly
When: 13 Apr 13 15:22
Andrew Cotter, BBC Sport at Augusta
"The rules of golf are clear. Tiger took an incorrect drop so there's only one outcome. Guan Tianlang will have to be disqualified."

Lol.LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
Swagger
When: 13 Apr 13 15:24
I'm not a huge fan of Tiger personally etc like most people, but in this instance i don't think it's down to him, if the authorities disqualify him fair enough and i'm sure he would accept it. But if i was him i wouldn't walk either. He endured unrealistic bad luck for a start which put him in the water in the first instance which is punishment enough and surely he should have been properly told at the time where to drop the ball - they have enough burger munchers marching around the course as it is. What do they actually do except to hassle a 14 year old Chinese boy? I would definitely play on if i wasn't disqualified and in practice I think 95% of people would
By:
dave1357
When: 13 Apr 13 15:26

Apr 13, 2013 -- 3:16PM, incaseof wrote:


What says Tiger KNEW he broke the rule? Only reason he got two shot pen is because of tv pictures!! If a official got up to him and said the drop was against the rule he would take the two shot penalty before he signed his card


he clearly said in the interview that he knew he had dropped the ball in a different place, that is a rule breach resulting from ignotance.  The trial by tv rule doesn't protect you from rules breaches resulting from ignorance of the rules eg repairing a spikemark, grounding culb in a hazard.  It was brought in because Harringtons ball moved when he marked it and he thought it just oscillated.

By:
Far From Trouble
When: 13 Apr 13 15:27
Wayne Grady seething Laugh
By:
mayburydrr
When: 13 Apr 13 15:31
yep dave is correct. the fact tiger told the world what he did makes him liable to DQ. if he thought he dropped it in the same place but TV evidence showed it was in the wrong place by 3mm then the rule comes in, but hes got lucky here. STILL, its not TIGERS FAULT! the officials are to blame. i dont like how he gets the stick for it
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